Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Amanda> Well, good evening and welcome to Making It Grow.

We are very, very glad that you can join us tonight.

I'm Amanda McNulty.

I'm a Clemson Extension Agent.

A Horticulture Agent.

And I'm here with Terasa Lott, who's not a Horticulture Agent, but now a District Director.

And, I think you started out with Water Resources.

Terasa> I did.

So, I dabbled in Water Resources first and then was part of the horticulture team, before I moved into administration.

Amanda> Okay.

And we are at ETV Upstate, where we have friends, we hadn't seen in several years.

We're very glad to be up here with them again.

Anyway.

It's nice up here, isn't it?

Terasa> It sure is.

It feels just like home.

Amanda> Yeah, we're in Spartanburg.

I mean, in case people don't know where ETV Upstate is.

Anyway.

So, Cory Tanner, you're the Horticulture Program Team Director.

And... we have so many people moving here from away.

I bet these home hort.

agents are just slammed.

Are they?

> Oh, absolutely, Amanda.

You know, particularly in our big growth areas, the Upstate, you know, just south of Charlotte, Charleston, really the whole coast.

Yeah, it's hard for us to keep up.

We're here to serve all the citizens of South Carolina.

It's just there's a lot more now than there were a few years ago.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

And, we do have a great resource at HGIC if you want to tell people about that.

Cory> Absolutely, our Home and Garden Information Center, I mean, we have, I think, we're over a thousand now different publications written by agents in South Carolina about growing just about anything.

Pest management, weed control, weed identification, just lots of resources there.

Amanda> And live people too.

Cory> That's online.

But yes, if you want to talk to somebody and you're having trouble reaching your local hort.

agent because they're out doing programs in the community, you can call the Home and Garden Information Center and talk to a real person.

Amanda> And, you can send them pictures in the mail and they'll talk back and forth.

It's not like, you know, "well, your time's up."

I mean, I think they'll help you solve the problem.

Cory> Absolutely.

That's what we're here for.

Amanda> I know.

Yeah, yeah.

And, so people who aren't used to South Carolina's you know, growing conditions, this is very, very different.

<That's right.> Anyway.

Well, so, we are so glad that Nicole Goodman is here.

You're an Urban Horticulture Agent in Spartanburg, and, you've got people moving in, here.

And I think your Master Gardener class has, new people and some old people who are from around here.

> Yes.

It's always nice to have kind of a diverse group of, growing, climates or zones in my Master Gardener class.

So we have people that have been growing here for a very long time, and then people from all around the nation.

Amanda> So do y'all have a garden that y'all maintain anywhere or is there anything like that?

Nicole> We have several, actually.

Amanda> Do you?

Nicole> And I have a really amazing group in my county.

Very proud of them.

So one of them is the St.

Luke's Free Medical Clinic, has a teaching garden.

<Come on.> Yes.

That is kind of my heart project.

I've put a lot of my personal time in there as well.

Hatcher Gardens, with stormwater education is a big one where a lot of, volunteers go out and help maintain and give tours.

<Okay> And then very unique, we, or the association maintains a field, for Plant a Row for the Hungry.

It's a nationwide, movement to grow extra food and we donate it to, soup kitchens... <Food banks.> Yes, correct.

And also to St.

Luke's because they have a pantry, too.

Amanda> Gosh.

Well, you have good people.

<We do.> Amanda> My heart goes out to you.

Yeah, okay.

Well, Davis Sanders, I don't know of anything good you do, darling.

(laughter) Davis> I tell good stories.

Amanda> You do tell good stories.

You're an old friend, I guess I can tease you a little bit.

<Thank you.> And you're at South Pleasantburg Nursery, and you've been there for a while.

And, gosh, y'all are- There's a lot of stuff going on in Greenville, and I think you've got a lot of stuff in the nursery.

You've got, things in the store, if they need supplies or chemicals and things.

And then, I guess you've got bulbs and things to treat trees even.

Davis> We certainly do.

We've got about ten acres.

Of course, a lot of that is tied up in parking and the building.

But we probably have, probably have about five acres of nursery stock.

Everything from annuals this time of year, Pansies and Violas and the ornamental cabbage and kale, Brassicas.

<Yeah> We, in the summertime, we have a huge assortment of perennials.

Probably the best, best selection of perennials anywhere in the state.

Amanda> Good for you.

Davis> And, and it varies from season to season.

Of course, we bring things in seasonally that are in bloom because the, one of the sayings in the nursery industry is "WIBS" "what's in bloom sales."

<Okay> But, we try to stay in touch with the seasons.

We also try to stay in touch with the prime planting seasons for certain plants.

You know, most hardy plants do best if they're planted in the fall and winter.

There are a few that, that should be planted when they're breaking dormancy.

And of course, the summer annuals need to be planted in the spring.

<Sure> But yes, we try to be a year-round supplier we'll have poinsettias in December.

You know, we've just had a big festival, lots of pumpkins and things like that.

Amanda> Yeah, okay.

<Yep> Goodness gracious, that's a lot to keep up with.

Davis> It is.

But it's a lot of fun too.

Amanda> Yeah.

And you've got good friends who've been coming to see you for years and years, I think.

Davis> Yes, certainly do.

In fact, I tease people, I joke with people that my customers are my social life because that's... they come to the nursery to see me because that's the only time they, that I have time to see them, so.

Amanda> Ah, that's kind of fun, yeah.

Well, we're glad you could find time to come to us.

Davis> I appreciate it.

Amanda> We're going to have some things for you to learn about.

Susan Lunt, I think, you're going to talk with her about... Terasa> About stormwater pollution and how our viewers can work on keeping our waterways clean and safe.

Amanda> Very important.

Golly, Pete.

And then, Liliana Flores came.

She's an EFNEP person, and we had a good time talking with her too.

A cool, cool young person.

Anyway, well Terasa have we got some pictures to show from our viewers.

Terasa> We do.

Our viewers always come through for us.

This is the "Gardens of the Week" segment, and it's really a time to spotlight you, what you're doing in your yards, gardens, beautiful places that you've captured around the state or close by.

So I hope you enjoy this week's collection.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ We get a wide variety of photos that are submitted for "Gardens of the Week."

Everything from house plants to vegetables, including the Hoya Carnosa or wax plant that was shared by Scott Braveboy in today's collection.

And, Nicole, that's really good timing, because I think you shared that with us the last time you were a panelist.

Nicole> That's right.

Yes, I brought my entire collection.

(laughter) Amanda> I remember.

Yeah, yeah.

And Terasa, I think you said use the camera this way and not vertically.

Terasa> That's right, that's right.

Really, because the vertical photos take up a very small amount of space on the TV screen.

And so you can really fill it up and showcase what you're doing.

If you turn that camera sideways and make a horizontal picture.

Amanda> Well, and thanks to everybody who participates.

we really do enjoy it.

Well... some people may not be enjoying their garden as much as usual.

They may have a problem.

Let's see what we can do to help.

Terasa> We're going to try to help Anna in Clemson, who reached out and said "There is a disease on some parts of my Knockout Roses.

What should I do to make sure it stays 'knockout' and not 'dead out'?"

Amanda> Well, oh, that's cute.

Good for her, yeah.

(laughter) Cory, are you going to help us with this one?

Cory> Sure.

Well, I mean, roses are known for having- Amanda> Uh, la, la, la, la.

Cory> That's right.

Especially a lot of our older, hybrid roses.

Things like black spot, for instance, is a main one.

And Anna shared some photos.

I'm not sure that this is black spot.

It is a leaf spot.

<Yes> But it doesn't look terribly familiar to me.

So, probably the best course of action if we wanted to know for sure what it is, would be to send a sample to our Plant and Pest Diagnostic Clinic, of those infected leaves and let them actually diagnose specifically what the, disease is.

Given the time of year and the fact that these are deciduous shrubs, they're going to drop these leaves.

I probably wouldn't recommend any kind of treatment at this time of the year.

Maybe, clean up those leaves when they fall and destroy them or discard them.

But the other thing is, Knockout Roses and other roses, particularly the repeat blooming roses, they respond very well to hard pruning in the late winter.

And so that might help open this plant up- Amanda> To get more air, air circulation.

Cory> Air circulation and that sort of thing.

So one thing I would do is not now, but in the late winter or so, probably March... <Yeah> give it a good hard cut back down to about 12 to 15 inches and, clean out the twiggy stuff and leave like the main- Amanda> And the outward growth.

Cory> The outward growing stems.

And I suspect being a Knockout, it will respond well.

Amanda> Okay.

And the reason not to do it now is that we have warm weather and it might flush and send out new growth and then we'll get a freeze and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

So wait.

<Yeah> Okay.

Well, thank you so much.

I think that was real good advice to her.

Cory> I hope this helps.

Amanda> Yeah, I hope so too.

Well, Terasa.

Terasa> I think Nicole has a show and tell for us.

Kind of, unusual bean maybe.

Nicole> Yes.

So, I'm not a big bean eater, if I'm being honest.

But I do like growing things that I've never seen before or that are unusual.

So I brought the Chinese red noodle bean.

And you can see how gorgeous this color is.

So dark, especially the young pods.

The fun part about this is especially if you have younger kids, if you fry them in butter, not so healthy- But this size, they kind of become black, crinkled.

Amanda> So you put them in the frying pan with some butter <Yeah> and stir them around?

Move them around?

<Yeah> Really?

Nicole> So, I tell my kids we're having tarantula legs for dinner.

They love it, they love it.

(laughter) Terasa> That'd be great for Halloween.

<Yeah> Nicole> But- Cory> This one's impressive.

Nicole> Yes.

So they're also called or they're the type of, yardlong beans and they can grow extremely long.

They started to kind of slow down in sizing.

Still very productive.

This one, I would more like shell, like a cowpea.

Amanda> And I ate some, and I thought they were delicious.

But you haven't eaten any yet.

Nicole> I have not.

I'm really not a bean eater.

(laughter) Cory> But they do look like, cowpeas- Amanda> Purple hull peas.

Cory> Purple peas or Crowder peas.

I think they're in the same group.

Amanda> Tasted like a bean to me.

Nicole> That's right.

That's right.

What I want to try is, especially these very tender young ones, I want to try and see if I can ferment them because I love anything fermented.

Be careful when you do that at home and get yourself educated first.

Amanda> How would you go about doing that?

Nicole> Read instructions.

(laughter) Amanda> Okay, okay.

(laughter continues) Nicole> But we do have, I believe, on there is a fermentation guide on our Home and Garden Information Center.

Amanda> And they help people with recipe, I mean, questions about food as well as gardening.

Nicole> Yes.

It's not just gardening.

But yeah this was probably, my most productive crop this summer.

And it really produces tremendously during the heat when everything else slows down.

Amanda> And you haven't been eating any of it?

Nicole> No, no, no, the boys have been eating it.

Amanda> No, but they haven't been eating the beans.

Nicole> They love- Terasa> They eat them, they're tarantula legs, right?

Nicole> Yes.

Amanda> Oh, but so you have shelled some for the boys?

<Yes> Okay.

Alright.

Okay, because you've got two... fast growing little kids.

Nicole> Yes, they do, like a weed.

Amanda> Okay, well great.

Okay.

Fun, fun, fun.

Alright.

Davis, what do you got for us?

Well, once again, I've brought an assortment of plants from our friends up at Carolina Native Nurseries up in Burnsville, North Carolina.

You know, they almost got totally washed away during Helene.

But they have made such a rebound, they've quadrupled their production.

They have some of the most beautiful native perennials, we've ever seen.

Amanda> I think the community came and helped them didn't they?

Davis> Yes, they certainly did.

And they had, they had recently upped their production facility by adding an automatic potting system that, fortunately, was on higher ground and did not get affected by the floods.

<Whoo> They've also, contracted a tissue culture lab to produce the starch for their native azaleas- <Golly Pete> So that, they get a lot more consistent crop.

But they're still a year or so away from being, <Okay> fully restocked on that.

Amanda> But what we got today?

Davis> They have really stepped up their game with perennials.

We have two varieties of the native skullcap.

<Okay> Scutellaria.

I don't know if we can zero in on the picture of this one to get the flowers, because this one is already bloomed out.

This is the purple... one of the purple cultivars of skullcap.

And then this one is a white skullcap.

The purple one, this particular one does stay a little bit more compact and refined than the species does.

The white one is a little more like the species, other than the fact that it has the white flowers instead of the purple flowers.

But both of them will get about two to three feet tall.

The white one, maybe a little taller.

<Really> But it will also spread a lot more.

The white one can get as much as, four foot clump in one growing season.

<Gosh> Where the purple one is a little bit more restrained.

Amanda> How long- Is the flowering season long?

Davis> It's generally, in the late summer, early fall.

Occasionally, they do bloom in the spring.

And if that happens, they can be cut back and they'll just flush back out and rebloom in the fall.

And the name, of course, comes from the shape of a flower.

It looks like a, like a monk's hood or a monk's skullcap.

Amanda> It does.

Do pollinators, do any insects come to it?

Have you ever noticed?

Davis> They do.

Actually, I've seen hummingbirds coming to this in the late summer because they do produce nectar.

Since it is, this far south since it is more of a shade plant you typically don't see as many pollinators coming to it in the shade- Amanda> Oh, well, it can take some shade.

Davis> It can take some shade, yeah.

Amanda> Oh, gosh I think that's fun.

Davis> Yeah, it's a really pretty little plant.

Amanda> It is.

Thank you so much.

Davis> Nice foliage too.

Amanda> Yeah.

Okay.

Well, Terasa, I think we're going to listen to your conversation with Susan.

Terasa> I'm visiting with Susan Lunt, Water Resources Extension Associate with Clemson's Carolina Clear Program.

And our theme today is "Only rain down the storm drain."

Susan, my first question is what exactly is a storm drain?

It's different from the drain in our kitchen sink.

> Absolutely.

So the drain in your kitchen, which also would collect, water and have it be discharged into a sanitary or a septic sewer system, also is designed to collect water from your washing machine, toilets, showers, dishwashers.

And that water is then routed through pipes to a wastewater treatment facility where it's treated before it's discharged to a water body.

This is much different than storm drains.

Storm drains, you've probably seen in your travels.

They're open metal grates that you see on the street or a parking lot.

They also can be metal curb with open entrances on the side.

And these are designed to collect stormwater, rainwater that's flowing over those parking lots, roadways, sidewalks, driveways.

And it is discharged untreated directly to our waterways.

Terasa> That's really the key right there, is that it's untreated.

And so... we need to be careful about what's on the surface so that the water that is going through the storm drain system is not polluted, and thereby carrying it to our local waterways.

Susan> You're absolutely correct.

That key feature of it being untreated, getting into those waterways like our lakes, rivers, streams, ocean is critical because those waterways become our source drinking water.

They impact public health, recreation and wildlife.

So we have to protect what is entering into those storm drains to protect everything else.

Terasa> So what kinds of pollutants might be problematic if it were to enter our stormwater system?

Susan> So the common types of pollutants that we see entering into stormwater and thus getting into our waterways include things like pet and yard waste, household waste and litter.

When pollutants from pet waste and yard waste, such as excess nutrients and fertilizers get into our waterways, they can contribute to nuisance plant growth in those waterways and even harmful algal blooms.

Terasa> Gosh.

So the key is, we don't want that to happen.

And there's good news because there are actions that we can take to keep those potential pollutants from entering our waterways, so we keep them healthy, fishable and swimmable.

So what actions can our viewers take?

Susan> Absolutely.

So small actions by multiple people across South Carolina can have a huge impact, make a big difference.

So there's a couple simple things that we can do.

Always pick up after your pet.

Terasa> I know I do.

And that means carrying bags with you wherever you go.

Susan> Absolutely.

Great.

I'm so glad to hear that.

Also, do what you can to eliminate things like household waste, your typical waste such as diapers, things from food packaging, fats, oils, and greases often referred to as "FOG."

Any chemicals, paints, thinners, medications, soapy water, and any litter like cigarettes butts, items that may have been in the back of a truck load that could blow out.

You want to keep all of those items out of the street?

Terasa> Yeah.

Most definitely.

So, not contributing to litter is important.

Something we all can do.

And even if we see a piece of litter on the ground, we could potentially pick it up and then dispose of it, properly.

Susan> Absolutely.

So it's so important to protect our waterways and then, which is helping protect that source drinking water, public health, wildlife, recreation by doing those simple actions.

And it's really a community effort.

So you want to be that role model.

You want to be that person that's out there doing these small tasks, encouraging your community.

And then all of us together are helping protect South Carolina's waterways.

Terasa> And speaking of a community effort, we were talking about storm drains, and I think there is a program through Carolina Clear where there's storm drain marking to help raise awareness that, "hey, this is a storm drain, this water is untreated, so only rain should go down that drain."

Susan> Absolutely.

So thanks for repeating our message of "only rain down the storm drain."

So yes, if anyone in your community is interested in having storm drain markers put at these open grates or the side curb side openings, you can reach out to clemson.edu/carolinaclear and you'll be able to find local agents that can help put you in touch with how to get these storm drain markings.

Terasa> And I bet there's additional information there about ways our viewers can take those small steps that make a big difference.

Susan> Yes there is.

And so many of the things you already mentioned are great things to do, particularly this time of year, as leaves are going to start falling.

That's another thing that individuals can do, is start collecting that yard waste and debris, not allowing it to clog those storm drains and cause localized flooding, but instead use it for compost or mulch.

Or if you do need to dispose of it, check with your local municipality to find out how it should be properly collected and disposed of and the locations that you can dispose of it.

Terasa> That's right.

This time of year, people sometimes find themselves with an abundance of leaves.

But I like to say "leaf it on the lawn."

Little play on words.

Folks can just use a mulching mower and leave the debris right in the lawn.

It actually is going to return nutrients there.

So it will reduce, the use of fertilizer in the future.

Susan> Perfect.

Terasa> Thanks so much for visiting with me today.

I hope you have some new ideas on how you can be part of a solution to pollution.

Amanda> Terasa, thank you for that conversation.

I want to ask you about something that's kind of one of my pet peeves.

I see people with these blowers blowing all the, sand and stuff out into the road.

And I don't think you're supposed to do that are you?

Terasa> You are not supposed to do that.

And in addition to the problem it can present with stormwater because as I talked about with Susan, the sediment can be an issue, you know, and also the nutrients from leaves or grass that's been cut.

But another issue is safety.

So especially fresh cut grass on that roadway surface, people riding motorcycles, it can be very dangerous.

It's extremely slippery.

Amanda> No, really?

Terasa> Yeah.

So better, to just, if you're going to, if you need to blow it, blow it back into the yard rather than out into the street.

And you can take advantage of those grass clippings that are going to break down back into your yard.

And, you know, it's just, it's much better off overall.

Amanda> Yeah.

I mean, I love to, you know, swim in creeks and you know, puddle around and mess around.

And I want it to be clean and fresh for me.

Terasa> Yeah.

Water is vital for every living thing.

So it's important that we all do our part to keep the waterways clean.

Amanda> Well, thank y'all for what the Water Resources Team is doing.

We really appreciate it.

And for you, because you did a lot when you were in that hat- Well, wearing that hat, I think.

Yeah.

So hats, hats, hats.

This is smooth sumac, this wonderful reddish thing.

And it's just beautiful.

And, these are some of, these are the leaves.

And, these leaves do not have, I have... down where I am, we have a different sumac that has, appendages on the leaves.

Yeah.

And, but anyway.

And ours, doesn't dry as pretty in the winter.

This one is just stunningly gorgeous.

And you can make lemonade out of it and all kinds of wonderful things.

And it will get big, like, you know, I think it can get like, ten feet tall, can't it Cory?

Cory> It can.

Yeah.

Amanda> Yeah.

And I think it's just wonderful food for birds and animals in the wintertime.

Besides making lemonade, it apparently is pretty high in you know, Vitamin C and some things.

So I just think it's a great thing to plant.

And it's so handsome.

Look at that.

Terasa> The leaves provide some fall color, usually as well.

I was recently back home in upstate New York and even though it was before, really the leaves we're starting to turn on most of the large deciduous trees, the sumac was starting to color up.

Amanda> How about that?

So, it's up there too.

Isn't that fun?

I just think it's beautiful.

I wonder if any nurseries carry it?

Or do they consider it kind of weedy?

Davis> Well it's, really a matter of supply.

A lot of the, a lot of wholesale nurseries if they can't move 10,000 of something, they're not going to grow any of it.

Amanda> Well, anyway, I guess I could plant some seeds, maybe it would come up, I don't know.

Davis> And there is, there is one that's, pretty popular in cultivation.

It's called Low-Gro or Gro-Low.

Low-Gro Mound.

But I don't think it really produces the fruit.

Amanda> Yeah.

The fruits are what I'm after.

They're just stunningly attractive.

Okay, Teresa.

Terasa> Let's see who we might be able to help today.

I think, Tim has a question in Seneca.

He said, "Something is causing light splotches on my kale leaves.

What could it be?"

Amanda> Goodness.

Okay, everybody's growing kale now.

You know, it wasn't something we ate a lot coming along, but now it's all the rage.

Cory.

Cory> Well, it's leafy green season.

You know, the fall of year so whether you eat kale or not, we got a lot of collard eaters out there.

So, very, very similar.

Amanda> Mustard greens.

I like, those too.

Cory> Mustard greens.

Yeah.

And so, it's hard to know for sure just from white splotches on leaves.

But there is an insect particularly, you know, we like to start these greens earlier in, you know, late summer.

Amanda> So they have time to mature.

Cory> So they have time to mature and get some size to them.

And we do that, there is a warm season insect pest that can get on them and do some damage.

And I don't know if this one's going to behave, but I have on, at my house on some kale and collards and they're called harlequin bugs.

Amanda> Harlequin?

Cory> Harlequin bugs.

There we go.

It's going to move around, so I'll hold it as still as I can.

But it has a mottled orange shield.

And the shape of the insect should be familiar to gardeners.

It is in the Stinkbug family.

Pentatomidae.

<Ugh> And so these guys are plant feeders.

And this specific one loves things in the Brassicaceae the Brassica family, which are kale, collards, brussel sprouts, cauliflower, broccoli- Amanda> All that stuff.

Cory> All that stuff.

Mustards.

And so they have piercing, sucking mouthparts.

And so when they're active, they'll stick their mouthparts into the plant leaf and suck out the chlorophyl.

And it'll leave little white blotchy, damage to the leaves.

You know, I don't typically see them with really huge populations around us, at least not in the home garden.

Nothing that I think really warrants insecticide use.

I usually just handpick them- <Squish them.> Or knock them into some soapy water or something.

Amanda> We don't really have many things for stinkbugs, do we?

I don't think so.

Cory> The insecticides aren't great against stinkbugs.

So it's, these are best, just probably to handpick if you only have a few plants.

Amanda> So they're not as bad as the other stinkbugs- Cory> No and I don't see, find them to be as stinky as the other stink bugs, either.

<Okay> Now a really cool way, I wish we had a picture of them, but... the eggs of this insect are really fascinating.

<Come on.> They are, they'll lay the eggs on their host plant.

So, your kale- Amanda> On top or underneath?

Cory> I've seen them both.

<Okay> On top, and above and below the leaves.

But they are a little barrel-shaped eggs with a white and black spiral.

<Gosh> Like a barber pole, but black and white.

It's like something out of Dr.

Seuss, but they're really cool, really cool eggs.

Amanda> Wow.

Okay.

Well, I hope you enjoy your kale salad.

Do you massage your kale before you make salad?

Cory> I have.

Makes it a little more edible.

A little less fibrous.

Amanda> Yeah, but it can take a long time.

Cory> It can.

Amanda> Yeah, yeah.

I occasionally do, but sometimes I just chomp, chomp, chomp.

Cory> Just eat it.

Amanda> Well, thanks.

That was fun.

Thank you so much.

Terasa> It's warm in here.

So, I think it's getting its steps in.

Cory> That's right.

Amanda> Glad he behaved for you, or she.

Okay.

Nicole, have you got something to talk about?

Nicole> Yeah.

So, I mentioned the Master Gardeners in the beginning.

And I do want to mention them in particular at the St.

Luke's Free Medical Clinic, where we maintain and support the teaching garden.

We talk about or we teach the patients there, as well as the community in general about how to grow food very cheaply in small spaces.

How to recycle your compost, safe composting practices and such.

And as most community gardens or charities... it's always a struggle with the funding, right?

So, it's really great that SPACE here in Spartanburg, Spartanburg Area Conservancy at the Glendale Shoals, has given me permission to harvest invasive bamboo there.

<Oh!> I'm not going to put a dent into their bamboo forest.

It grows way too fast, but I get to cut it down, bring it to our community garden.

And we started to build, basically not quite a retaining wall, but just kind of a raised bed to the hill.

And, so I tried many different tools to cut down bamboo.

And most of them I didn't like.

I had pruning saws, normal wood saws.

I had jigsaws, electric jigsaws.

Especially electric tools I do not like because they kind of get stuck and then you have... <Yeah, yeah.> I really do not like it.

But this is a Japanese pull saw and one of my master gardeners told me I should try it out.

And this is my favorite tool.

Through green bamboo, it goes like butter.

It doesn't really dull.

I mean, eventually it will dull.

But this is really my favorite tool so far.

Amanda> Can we see it, please?

<Absolutely> Did you have to order it on the internet or something?

Nicole> Yes.

I'm not sure if, you guys- Amanda> Gosh, it's got Japanese characters on it.

It does this is- Nicole> I think it said, made in Japan.

You never know what you get.

Cory> The Japanese make incredible saws, blades, and tools.

So some of my favorite gardening tools, are Japanese origin.

<Gosh> Davis> I would be lost without my hori hori knife.

<Yes> Amanda> Wow.

It's got a tiny little serrated edge, and it feels like it would be- And it's got a great grip on it.

Nicole> The nice thing is you can even remove the blade.

So I'm not, like, once it's dull, I'm not just throwing it away.

I can replace the blade.

<Wow> I really like this.

Amanda> Gosh.

<Yeah> Well, I am so pleased that you showed us this.

And you say that's just a specialty of the Japanese.

They've got great saws... things like that.

Cory> Cutting tools.

Amanda> Okay.

<Yeah> Well, I'm thrilled to learn that.

Davis> If you look real closely, those teeth are slightly offset.

So it's like a miniature bone saw.

<Yeah> Amanda> Whoo.

Nicole> It is sharp.

<Yeah> Like it takes me maybe 20 seconds to pull or cut down one of those massive, mature bamboo canes.

Yeah, yeah.

Amanda> Well, good for you.

And... I'm glad you all are sharing your knowledge and also the results of what y'all grow with people who are in need.

Because there are many people who, sadly, have food insecurity.

<Absolutely> Yeah, yeah.

Well, thank you.

Okay, Davis.

Davis> Well, we have a couple of other things here, for the fall garden.

You know, the word, the common name Aster has become such a... a large encompassing, group of plants because they're not all necessarily true Asters.

And so recently, over the past few years, the word Aster has, just started to, be used to, lump together similar groups.

Amanda> Here an Aster, there an Aster, everywhere an Aster.

Davis> Uh-huh.

But the, the original Asters, like the Purple Dome, the New England Aster, that Latin name has been changed to Symphyotrichum for some reason.

The, the wood aster, the white wood aster, which is a shade loving, aster.

The Latin name for that is now Eurybis.

E-U-R-Y-B-I-S.

There's of course, everybody's familiar with the Stokesia, which is often referred to as Stokes' Aster.

But the thing they all have in common is they're all members of the composite family.

<Yes> And, and they're all pollinator magnets whenever they're blooming.

This particular one is, what used to be called a true Aster.

It's one of the Symphyotrichums.

This one is, the Calico Aster.

And this particular cultivar is called Lady in Black.

Because it's such a dense foliage there's not a whole lot of black or melonistic, pigmentation on it, but it's so dense that from a distance it does look black.

I wish this was a little bit more in bloom, because the, the common name Calico Aster, comes from the fact that it's the coloration is very splotchy over the entire plant.

You've got the dark green leaves.

You've got the beautiful white, petals.

And then the, the true flowers in the center are bright yellow.

So it's got a really nice calico character.

Amanda> So in masse, the flowers make a lovely display.

Davis> Very much so.

And it's one of the more well-behaved ones.

It's not going to get overly large.

Some of them can get up four, five, six feet across and almost as tall.

The Ampelaster, which is often referred to as the Climbing Aster if you've got a support for it, they can grow up to 12 feet in one growing season.

<Heavens!> The wood aster is, like I say, it's, Eurybis.

And this is one of the few, plants referred to as an Aster that will thrive in the shade.

This one is native to, woodland areas.

Typically, you'll see it growing under under high pines and hardwood floors.

And it, a lot of times you'll see it along a woodland edge in a hardwood forest.

Amanda> Do you?

It's lovely, I think.

Oh, the flowers are so pretty.

And you say, pollinators love to come to these.

Davis> Yes they do.

Dr.

Harry Ponder, who was a professor at Auburn, used to say, about all sorts of different plants, "pollinators will shed their wings and crawl on their bellies to get to these flowers."

Amanda> What a fun, fun, fun description.

Shed their wings and crawl on their bellies.

Isn't that fun?

Yeah, well, it's so nice for us to be able to put something out that helps them because we know that, you know, you know, that pollinators are having a hard time.

Davis> Yes they are.

Amanda> So, all of us should try to be aware of that.

Well, thank you so much for sharing this with us.

Davis> You're welcome.

Amanda> Yeah.

Hey, how are you, over there?

(laughter) Terasa> I'm doing well, you know, this time of the year, people might be out considering adding bulbs to their yard.

My husband recently brought home, some daffodils, I believe.

And, Cory, I think you, just invested in some as well.

Maybe our viewers would be interested in some tips about what grows well, what doesn't grow, when to plant them.

Cory> Sure.

Yeah.

So, for our spring blooming bulbs.

So think of daffodils, and tulips- <Narcissus> Yeah, Narcissus.

There's so many wonderful ones.

Fall is the time that we want to plant specifically October, November.

And so yeah, I made a pretty big bulb order a couple of weeks ago and waiting for those to come in so I can get them in the ground.

But yeah, it's bulb planting season.

We have so many great options with perennial bulbs that will come back year after year.

Think about all the, all the various Narcissus.

And so those are wonderful to add to the landscape because they'll, once you get them in the site, get the soil amended correctly, get them properly planted, they'll be there for generations.

Amanda> I mean, you see them at old house sites.

Cory> Oh, sure.

Amanda> Still coming up.

Cory> On old pastures or sometimes when I'm out hiking you'll just find a patch out in the woods.

It's like, that was probably a home site once upon a time.

Amanda> I don't think we have quite as much luck with tulips, do we?

Cory> No.

And I usually don't, but I bought a few tulips.

Amanda> Well, they're kind of fun.

Cory> They're fun.

But really down here in the South, where we have hot summers, the bulbs don't appreciate our climate.

So we grow typically prechilled bulbs that are planted as annuals in the South.

Amanda> Well, and I think, you know the bulb when it sends up the flower and the foliage and all, it's, you know, it's kind of, sort of cut up because it's using all of its reserves to do that.

And then you need to leave the leaves to photosynthesize, to replenish it and build it up.

And of course, with the daffodils and all, you know, they'll increase.

And it's just wonderful.

But what I've heard is that tulips just don't like hot weather.

Cory> That's right.

Amanda> I mean, they're just wimpy, kind of sort of.

Cory> So and I mean, think about these- Most of them have been developed in Holland and- Amanda> Yeah.

They don't have our summers.

Cory> Northern Europe.

And they're just not acclimated to our area.

But you can buy them, and you know, treat them like annuals and enjoy that great color.

And then just... sometimes you might get a few that come back depending on the variety.

But I wouldn't count on it.

Amanda> Well, and if you, got a whole area that you've planted, you might just want to go ahead and pull them up when they finish blooming.

You know, and then put something else there again next year.

Don't you think?

<Yeah> Okay.

So they come prechilled usually.

Cory> Yes.

So they... bulbs, especially these spring flowering bulbs Not so much with the summer flowering bulbs.

They need a chilling, requirement met.

So in the ground, cooling.

And so that's why we plant daffodils and all in the fall.

So they get that natural chilling through the winter.

But our winters are not always long enough for tulips and other things to bloom properly.

So, they usually come prechilled.

Amanda> And I think, usually if the bulb is this big, you plant it like that far under the ground.

Is that kind of the rule of thumb.

Cory> Yeah, usually three to four times the height of the bulb is really typical.

Amanda> Oh, oh more than that?

Cory> Yeah.

So, more than that.

Amanda> Whoa.

Oh.

I'm sorry.

Cory> Maybe not tulips, but for daffodils for sure.

Amanda> Okay, thank you.

Alright, Terasa.

Terasa> Well, earlier in the show, you know, Susan and I were talking about storm water, and I believe Nicole's Master Gardeners also engage in stormwater education.

Nicole> Yeah, that's right.

We engage in a lot of different things.

But stormwater is also, for me, very important, in my position.

And water is life.

So I'm fairly passionate about educating the community how to, better, be about water, rain and so on.

But Hatcher Gardens, which is an absolute, gem hear in the community.

They also, have focus on educating about the water cycle, how water infiltrates through the different soil horizons, how important it is to keep water on your property and not let it wash down the road into the storm drain, picking up pollution and such.

But yeah, Hatcher Gardens is currently very incredible.

I know it's getting closer to like, dormancy and whatnot.

But they still have a lot in bloom.

And they had so many changes, accomplished this year.

A huge... sand area, play sand area for the kids.

They have a sensory garden.

The first time I visited the garden was about four years ago, and I've been going regularly, and I feel like every time I go there, there is a new section of the garden.

Amanda> The story of that is stunning.

<Yes> We had gully erosion up here when everybody just planted cotton.

And I mean, we had things 40, you know, feet deep and 40 across.

And that was a slight of that.

And the gentleman who came down every time he saw a rock or anything that the city had left on the side of... he started gathering those and putting them in it.

And through his own resources, made this stunningly beautiful place.

You know, it's just a, and so he should have a tribute to him, don't you think?

Nicole> Absolutely.

And it's still a privately owned garden, but open to the public.

It's basically admission for, free, but they do ask for a donation.

<Yeah> But it's beautiful that this is available to the neighborhood and to the city.

Amanda> Okay, Davis, what you going to talk about now?

Davis> Well, I have one more native plant here.

<Okay> To kind of go along with, with your decor.

<Okay> This is a goldenrod.

Like you have in your, in your hat.

This one is for some reason not opening up right now, but it- Amanda> It will.

Davis> Because it came down out of the mountains.

But this is a zigzag goldenrod.

(laughter) Amanda> That sounds kind of fun.

Davis> Yeah.

And... I'm pretty sure that the name comes from the fact that, you know, the goldenrod does have alternate spacing on the stems with the foliage arrangement, but these are, the inner nodal spaces- I'm gonna turn it around, so maybe we can get a better shot of it.

The inner nodal spaces are so wide that, <They are.> that alternating, leaf pattern is very obvious.

And, so somebody said, "hey, it's zigzag" so the name stuck.

<Okay> But the inflorescence is very similar to most of the other goldenrods, but even here, the foliage is not as compact as it is with, a lot of goldenrods.

And this one does stay fairly small.

It'll only get about three, three and a half feet tall.

Amanda> I think it's kind of fun that it's not so compact together.

I mean, it'd be a completely different look, I think.

Davis> I think so, too.

Just the... it would complement a lot of fine textures, like the Calico Aster and so many of the other fall plants that either have got a really dense texture, like the ornamental cabbage and kales, and the really fine textured, like the, like some of the Asters.

Amanda> Well, zigzag goldenrod, that's fun.

Okay.

Common names can be lots of fun.

Davis> Yeah, they can.

They can be confusing, too.

Amanda> Oh, they keep changing the scientific name so much.

Yeah, yeah.

We're going to talk with Liliana Flores, who's an EFNEP Agent, and learn about the things that she does.

Today, I'm talking to Liliana Flores, and she's an EFNEP Nutrition Educator.

You're based in Spartanburg?

> Yes ma'am.

Amanda> And that's a lot of initials.

E-F-N-E-P.

What does that stand for?

> It stands for Expanded Food and Nutrition Education Program.

Amanda> Alright.

Liliana> And it's a federal program that started way back in 1969.

But the reason they started it was because they started realizing people who were low income were having a lot of nutrient deficiencies.

So they were like, "let's do something about it.

Let's go out there and let's educate the community."

And they would send local people who knew the community to go talk.

Back then, it was run differently.

It was... you would go to your friend's house and you would tell them about nutrition.

Now it's a little different, we do groups.

<Certainly> Yeah, so it's grown to be a lot more structured and it's a bigger program.

Amanda> Do you do old people or young people or what?

Liliana> So we have like written curriculum where it's for kids, grades three through eight and then teenagers.

And then for adults who are parents to kids, it's really centered around kids.

And we do not touch the elderly that much because the elderly, it gets a little more difficult with chronic diseases and all that.

So we stick to basic nutrition education.

Yeah.

Amanda> Okay.

And what are some of the difficulties that you're seeing in kids in what they're eating these days?

Liliana> So we have a lot of processed foods.

And usually when it's processed it's high in salt, high in fat.

And if you eat it here and there, there's nothing wrong with that.

But we're starting to see people put it into their everyday diet, and that's causing obesity and it's causing, diabetes.

So, EFNEP's goal is to try to enforce healthier habits, healthier behaviors.

And we start with kids because I feel like kids are easier to kind of mold, and they see really good outcomes.

Amanda> Do they?

Liliana> Yeah.

Kids, the way EFNEP runs is they do a lot of application in the program.

So it's a lot of hands on.

So kids end up leaving with that knowledge and they take it home.

One time, I was teaching this young girl how much sugar is in a coke of soda.

And I saw her the next day and she was like, "yeah, I told my mom how much sugar it has, and she was like, so surprised."

And I felt so happy because I was like, you went home and you actually spread that information with your loved ones.

Like, that's what it's about.

So yeah, everyone's great.

Amanda> Well, we hear a lot about fiber and the importance of it.

And, so let's talk some about fiber.

Liliana> Okay.

So fiber, I know you guys are more about gardening and all that- Amanda> We're about all kinds of things.

Liliana> So with fiber, I thought it was just interesting because when you're looking at a plant like, you know, it has a cell wall, you know, like the structure of the cell wall is to protect it from the outside and to give it structure.

But on the nutrition side, it's really interesting.

Like, it's my most fascinating like, subject to talk about because it's... you don't think it's much- Because when you think, what do you think of fiber, when you think of fiber, like?

Amanda> Bran flakes or something.

Something not particularly fun?

Liliana> Yeah.

It's usually, you think of like bland food.

And then you also think, I know a lot of people think of it as it goes in and it comes out the same way.

So it's, you're not really absorbing it.

But the thing is, with fiber, there's different categories.

There's insoluble fiber, soluble fiber, and then there's fermentable fiber.

So they could all interchange into each category.

But soluble fiber that one turns into like, this gel like consistency in your stomach.

And that one's really, really good for people who have high cholesterol who are diabetic, just anyone in general.

It benefits us.

Amanda> So does it absorb it or tie it up or react with it or?

Liliana> So, it's like a gel because it absorbs water in your stomach.

And then it moves through your digestive and it takes your carbs, it takes your proteins, it takes your fats, and it slowly will release your carbs.

<Gosh> So, I know it's a lot of science.

It'll release your carbs so they'll eventually go into your system, but at a slower rate.

That's why it's good for diabetics.

<Okay> And then for- I thought this part was interesting for cholesterol it picks up fat and it binds to it, so it carries it out.

And it carries bile, which is, it helps you absorb fat into your system.

<Okay> So it carries that out as well.

And your body reuses the bile.

So it has to take cholesterol from your blood- Amanda> Gosh, that's cool.

Liliana> For your next food your next eating.

Amanda> And so what other kinds of fiber are there?

Liliana> So there's soluble.

<Okay> That's the one I just talked about.

Insoluble is the one that we think of that you eat and it just runs through you and comes out the other end.

That one's still beneficial, because some of them are fermentable.

So that, those are the main ones that you do want to eat fermentable fiber.

Because we have little bugs in our intestine, <Yeah> And if you keep them happy, they keep you happy.

Amanda> Good gut, good healthy gut organisms.

Liliana> Yes, exactly.

So, fermentable, soluble is the ones that feed them.

And as long as they eat, they'll release really good hormones and stuff into your system.

<Whoa> Yeah, it's a lot.

Plants play a huge role in our health.

Amanda> You've got some things on this plate talk about if some of these are good for us.

Liliana> So... one thing that we use in EFNEP is the "my plate."

It's the USDA like, way to see how you should eat.

I like it a lot because it's a visual, like it's literally a plate.

And it shows you what should fit in what.

So for your fruit and vegetables, it's half your plate.

<Wow!> Yeah, so this is just a depiction of how you should eat every day or attempt to, you don't necessarily have to be perfect about it.

Amanda> But that's like half of a plate.

Liliana> Half of your plate full of anything... You could eat all, beans if you want.

Or you can mix it up like this, where it's beans, tomatoes, avocado, make it a lot more yummier.

Amanda> Yeah.

And what's the rest of the, what's the rest of the plate?

> So, one fourth would be your grains.

So that could be rice, pasta- <Okay> Think of your starches.

Amanda> I've started using quinoa, and I really like it.

Liliana> Oh, quinoa is good because quinoa jumps into protein as well.

<Yeah> And then your last quart would be your protein.

<Okay> So that's a balanced meal.

Amanda> And beans have a lot of protein, though don't they?

<Yes> I love beans.

Liliana> So beans- A lot of food can fall into different areas.

That's the good thing about eating like a diverse plate, a colorful plate, you could say.

Because you're getting everything.

Yeah.

Amanda> Cool.

Okay.

Well, I hope there's an occasional spot for a cookie, but, in moderation.

Liliana> You can- Everything in moderation.

I believe in moderation, I really do.

Amanda> I'm so pleased that you came and that, we can try to get people to understand that, not just to eat you know, the easy, to prepare food that comes halfway done with all kinds of additives and things to it.

But, just have some great, you know- and you can open a can of beans.

I mean, it doesn't have to be the hardest thing in the world.

Liliana> Exactly.

Yeah.

And then if you grow your food, I mean- Amanda> Isn't that fun too?

Liliana> You have a use now?

Amanda> And we'd be glad to help them learn how to grow it.

Thank you so much for coming on.

Liliana> Thank you so much.

Amanda> I appreciate it.

Liliana> I loved it.

Amanda> Liliana would be a fun teacher, I think.

Terasa> I think so too.

Amanda> They're lucky to have her.

Okay.

Gosh, Cory, that's a funky looking thing.

Cory> Yeah, so I just wanted to bring in a, a banana flower.

<Whoa> Yeah.

And, believe it or not, there are several species of banana that are hardy in all of South Carolina, really.

Now they're not going to produce fruit, at least not ones that you would want to eat.

But they will grow.

Of course, they, die to the ground.

They're perennial.

So, a frost or freeze will kill them to the ground.

But, some of them, I don't even really protect this one.

Although it's, planted near my foundation on my home.

But, by the end of the season, it's... the plants are gutter high.

Amanda> Gosh.

And, spectacular looking.

Cory> Quite a few of these blooms on there.

And I don't really grow it for the bloom.

It's kind of like a... annual screening plant almost.

<Gosh> But they do produce these really cool blooms.

And so you can see this is a good example of a monoecious plant.

Alright.

And so monoecious, there's monoecious and dioecious.

And that's when you have separate male and female flowers.

In the case of monoecious, there's separate male and female flowers on the same plant.

<Okay> And so here we have, with the pink petals at the top and these three little, these are three individual flowers, right here.

<Wow> Those are the male flowers or the staminate flowers.

They have the stamen, they produce the pollen.

And then down here, they're not really flowers anymore, they're little, just remnants.

But down at the base, are what would have been the female flowers or the pistillate flowers.

And these are the ones you can tell because they look like.

What does that look like?

Terasa> Like a mini banana.

Cory> Little bananas.

Because these are the ovaries, <Wow!> if they were pollinated, would form, a banana.

Amanda> So is it insect pollinated?

Cory> I suspect- Amanda> I guess.

Cory> Insect or maybe bat pollinated.

I'm not entirely sure.

Obviously, bananas are tropical, and so something there, maybe hummingbirds.

Amanda> So how far apart have you got them planted?

Cory> So, I only planted one originally.

It was in like a five gallon nursery pot, but now it's taken up a space about the size of this table because they are rhizomatous.

Is that, did I say that correctly?

Amanda> That sounds good.

Cory> They spread by rhizomes, under the ground.

And so the clump gets larger each and every year.

And now I'm at the point where they filled the space available to them.

So every year I have to go in and dig some out, which is not an easy job.

Gosh.

You are gonna have to get one of those Japanese tools to dig something like that out.

Cory> It does take, I actually usually use an ax.

I have to cut up the rhizomes with an ax.

Okay.

Davis, we're almost out of time, but you've got something so much fun, we just have to talk about it.

Davis> Well, this is a Rudbeckia, like the Black-eyed Susan.

This one is called Henry Eilers.

It's going to get up five, six feet, it's a big one.

But the thing that sets this one apart are those spatulate petals on the flowers.

<Fun> They're not the big broad petals, that you normally associate with the Black-eyed Susan or Rudbeckia.

Looks almost like a florist Chrysanthemum.

Amanda> Isn't that fun, fun, fun?

Oh, gosh.

Isn't the world of plants- you don't have to go to Europe and take big fancy tours.

You can just, you know- Davis> Go out in your backyard.

Amanda> Look at the natural world, don't you think?

<Uh-huh> Shoot, okay.

Well, thank you all so much.

This has been a lot of fun.

And thank you to our wonderful friends up here at ETV Upstate.

We've had, they've been so nice and courteous to us.

We really appreciate it.

And, gosh, we'll just have to wait and see you next time.

Bye, bye.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ Narrator> Making It Grow is brought to you in part by Certified South Carolina.

This cooperative effort among farmers, retailers and the South Carolina Department of Agriculture helps consumers identify foods and agricultural products that are grown, harvested or raised right here in the Palmetto State.

McLeod Farms in McBee, South Carolina, family owned and operated since 1916.

This family farm offers seasonal produce, including over 40 varieties of peaches.

Wesley Commons, a full service continuing care retirement community located on more than 150 wooded acres in Greenwood, South Carolina.

Additional funding provided by the South Carolina Farm Bureau Federation and Farm Bureau Insurance and Boone Hall Farms.