- [Speaker] Here's the story.

- We're gonna kill the two piano players right now.

- 2, 1, 2, 3, Go on.

[blues music plays] Hold on baby Come along baby Hey baby, whole lot of shaking, going on.

Whole lot of shaking, going on.

Hey baby, whole lot of shaking, going on.

Whole lot of shaking going on.

[band plays] Come on.

[band plays] I said shake, baby, shake.

Shake, baby, shake, shake, baby, shake.

Hey baby, whole lot of shaking, going on.

Stormin' Norman band.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

- Once again, give it up to this lovely band behind us.

This is Stormin' Norman sell.

This is 11 piece Quarrel.

It is a rhythm and blues tribute.

It has been an absolute privilege to get to know this man over the last few years.

My name is Ryan Greg.

I'm a piano player, and hired gun in Asbury park.

And it is always a pleasure to play with another hired gun from a long time.

Who's been playing in the game and been out there and on the hustle for so long.

And yeah, just really love the guy and give it up one more time for Stormin' Norman.

- [Ryan] I was working at AJ's deli in Shrewsbury delivering sandwiches, and Norman was working for Jacob's music who has the contract with Steinway and is their official dealer in the Northeast.

And Norman ran his own shop and they gave him his own store in the same shopping center as the deli I worked at.

And, you know, if a Steinway shop opened into the same shopping center as a deli, even if it wasn't Norman, I would've visited, you know, like but I'd heard about him through reputation.

And I thought this would be a fun conversation.

I should go over and introduce myself.

And really, that was my only motivation, you know was, here's someone I've heard about.

I heard he's a great player.

I heard he's interesting.

This would be a fun conversation.

And I went over there.

He kind of dismissed me at first.

And then I played for like 15 seconds and then he noticed me, and then we started talking, and we haven't stopped, in the last three or four years, you know?

And I would go over there once a week, and listen to his stories, and talk about the old days.

And I would tell him about stuff that's going on now.

And we just started trading stories and becoming friends, like legitimate friends.

And that's how that started, it came from an honest place.

I knew he was a name.

That's all I knew.

You know, I didn't know really the history of who he was and what he's done.

And I just knew that he was a guy, you know.

He was a name in town and he'd done some stuff.

[piano music plays] - [Stormin' Norman] I kind of do things a lot different than anybody else.

I've been given the Liberty to do that in the store, being associated with Steinways.

And always in my life, always couldn't wait to see what somebody else wanted to do, what they wanted, what they wanted to play, let them play, and you know, it takes about 15, 20 seconds to realize that that's what you want to hear.

Or well, and it was, it's not.

We don't throw salesman's pitches here.

It's more artistry than anything I else.

And that's why the people floated here.

An interesting person playing the right notes, and just being very friendly and loose.

And that's what I like to work with.

It's easy to find honesty like that, rather than somebody giving you a four page resume of themselves.

It doesn't work in here.

So we let people come in.

Good players, bad players, students.

I either get along with somebody pretty much the first time or I don't get along with them.

I'm not easy to get along with it at all.

I'm looking for, in the players, I'm looking for somebody that understands some history and knows how to make music work, whether it's old, new or original.

And Ryan's one of those.

He can do that.

He's very special.

You don't get too many.

- [Speaker] And you spotted that pretty quickly.

- About 10 seconds.

[piano music plays] I don't know.

I guess I'm the senior member of everybody.

So I, I constantly always looking for somebody that has the same tastes and desires in music that I do.

And it's really hard to find.

If you really wanna find somebody, on the older end, wanna find somebody in the young brand, that plays and feels what I want to do, and likes to play, and has an open mind to playing.

And Ryan's a perfect fit, because we both know how to feed off of each other.

We've been taught how to play with a group, and how to play by ourselves.

Taught how to do a duet, and not step on somebody's toes.

It's very important not to play everything as you learned in the last 30 years, but to play what fits in the piece itself.

And that's very hard to do.

I mean, I interact with dozens of players, and there's some of them that are 10 times better than me but you couldn't work with them, because they were so busy trying to show off everything that they learned.

And it doesn't work for the general public.

It doesn't work for me either.

When Ryan and I work, we have the same taste in music.

We don't like things to be overdone.

We don't like them to be too busy.

And that's why it works.

[piano music plays] - [Speaker] Why is Norman an important figure in the lexicon of the music scene in this area or the state in general?

- I think it's, he was pivotal in the early days of putting on these shows, of getting a lot of these acts recorded.

And he was a producer, not only was he a record producer, but he was a live event producer.

You know, in the old days he would put on these shows.

And with kids that had 3 to 500 people in them.

He was the one building the shows.

He was bringing these people together and putting these bands together.

And really giving a voice to a lot of these acts, early on in the day.

Even beyond his own voice, you know.

It really was about the acts he was working with.

- [Charlie] After this thing started moving.

There was a club here called the upstage club.

It was basically an after hours club for teen musicians and fans on... Norman Seldon has been everywhere and done everything that you could do in the music field.

I'm trying to look at how many hats this man has worn.

He was a musician.

He was a singer.

He was a band leader.

He was an arranger.

He was a songwriter, and still is most of these.

He produced a lot of shows, concerts, dances.

He managed different local groups and bands.

He had his own record label, which he promoted.

That had on at least one occasion, an east coast regional hit.

He sold pianos.

He's done everything in his field.

And as a consequence, he knows everyone.

He has so many contacts, and so many people love him and and recognize him for what he's done.

But his recognition has been until recently, primarily among the musicians and the people inside the music field, who know what he's done.

And it hasn't really gotten out.

And so we decided, together, that we would get this down in a book, so that people can really understand what happened in the development of Jersey shore rock, and and what they call "The sound of Asbury park".

Norman had a lot to do with that.

And not as many people know about it as they should.

And we're trying to correct them.

Norman Seldon has had a huge influence in the development of Jersey shore rock music.

What people sometimes refer to as S.O.A.P., the sound of Asbury park.

- He's part of a constellation of people that were there during that time.

You know, and life is a series of moments.

And those moments are defined by the place and the people.

And that time in Asbury park, was a moment in time.

And that was the place and the people, you know.

It was just the right combination of people in town, the right place, the right timing, you know.

And he was a part of that picture of that constellation of musicians, and entertainers, and promoters, during that time, who helped to elevate and create that environment, you know?

And there are lots of examples over the years of, when you think about the grunge scene in Seattle.

When you think about, you know, the hip hop scene in Brooklyn, ya know.

Or you think about these different musical incubators that were responsible for so much of one thing.

And, you know, Norman was a part of that conversation, during the time it was really happening.

- [Stormin' Norman] I got interested after Manhattan school of music.

And during that, interested in rhythm and blues, and always was interested in it.

And somebody swayed me out of the classical to that.

And I started booking and managing, with my mother's permission.

You know, she would sign checks for me.

I auditioned groups in my parents' front room.

Mostly R and B. Motown at the time.

And I liked harmony.

I liked to be able to hear the lyrics.

I wanted to see good stage presence.

So I kind of was brought up on looking at at the classic acts, and finding out why did they sell 5, 6 million records at a clip?

And you find that out quickly.

And you relay that to these people.

These were kids, they were my age.

I was only 15.

And I was running shows and promoting them, but I saw what I needed to see, and I could relate it to them.

And they listened to me.

And I got lucky.

I had my own record label when I was 15.

And we were on the charts, all the way down to Florida.

On a little label, right out of Red Bank.

So, it started like that.

And it just blossomed.

It got a little bit busier.

And I had 2 or 3 concerts a week going.

And they had 500 to 1,000 people at all of them.

It just blossomed, you know, it was a good foundation, that you really can't get taught.

And I was fortunate to have a lot of experience, much, much older people, guide me in the booking, and the promotion, and how you did a contract, and how you treat musicians, and how you treat the bands.

And that made it easy for me, because that was the reality then.

It isn't crazy like it is now.

So I know what a person's supposed to get, and how they're supposed to be approached.

So I had a really good, I had a college education from the street from these people.

You couldn't teach what they taught me.

And that pretty much formed things.

And of course my opinion, isn't always accepted by a lot of people.

Because if they're a little bit off, I have the mouth to say, "Man, it doesn't work".

Why?

It's not what I want.

It's, you know, you're singing flat, or you're singing shower.

I don't have time for that stuff.

I never have.

And a lot of people balk at that.

But you know, I think Ryan's the same way.

It's either done, right, or you can't do it.

There's no middle of the road.

Especially, with recordings and performance.

You have to put out on stage, what you put out in the recording studio.

Matter of fact, more so.

And if you can't do that, then it doesn't work for me.

I don't think it works for Ryan either.

We're that way.

And if you work things that way, people appreciate it.

And you know, it's just, different education when I grew up with that.

Well, you know, at one time it was still separated.

I mean, railroad tracks blocked everything.

But you had all these venues; the jungle room, and the rainbow room, and Mrs. Jay's and this, I mean, everywhere you went there was a band playing.

There was a candy cane lounge I think, over there.

And that Johnny Meister used to play there with The Crest all the time.

It's a Rick house band, you know, so it was live.

I would say there were 15 to 20 venues with top shelf groups in, all the time.

I spent most of my years, walking from the start of Springwood avenue, all the way out to 35.

I hit all the clubs on the way down.

A couple times I thought I was getting my ass kicked because I was 14-15 years old, and I'm walking alone.

There were no cell phones.

You're not calling for help, you know.

But people came out more than once.

And when I was about to get myself really kicked around, they came out and said, don't touch that kid.

And he's all the guys in the block.

He's managing them.

He's bringing everybody out.

And from that point, nobody touched me.

I walked this little skinny kid.

You know, I was this big with a big Afro and I just walked up and down the street, and found who I wanted to sing.

And some guys used to walk outta and say, "I sing".

I said, well, come on, take an audition.

You know, we do that.

- [Charlie] If you go back to the beginning, and look at how Norman influenced this music, Norman was, we'll go back to 1963, 1964.

Norman was what, 16 years old at the time.

And he started getting into music very heavily.

He had started playing piano at the age of 3.

And he had his own band by the time he was 12, 13.

But when he was 15, 16, 17 years old, Norman started holding and producing, these teen dances and teen concerts.

And these dances were where, well, they were, first of all very popular.

And Norman had live entertainment there.

He was booking all of these different acts.

And he was booking primarily in the beginning "Black" acts.

He would bring in the Uniques and The Val tears.

And he started bring bringing in some bigger well known black acts.

He would bring in The Olympics from the west coast.

He brought in the Shells from New York city.

This was an era.

If you think of 1964, what do you think of?

You think of the British invasion.

And so the area was full of what I would call garage bands.

White rock bands, amateur bands, that were playing.

They started out in garages or homes, and would play their own little local dances.

And here was full of these garage bands.

They were very much influenced by the English invasion.

So when they go to one of Norman's dances, what do they see?

Well, he would have one of those bands on too but he will also bring in a black band, or a black vocal group.

And so kids were getting exposed to not only what they were hearing from their own local bands, but they were getting exposed to black music.

And if you look at a little bit down the line, I don't know that it's possible to accurately describe the Jersey sound, or the sound of Asbury park.

It's difficult.

But if you look at it, you would say that it's a form of rock music that is very much influenced by R and B by Rhythm and Blues.

It has a bluesier feel to it.

And it kind of distinguishes it from other areas in a country that also had a lot of these White, young White bands that were coming up.

And it exposed teenagers to different forms of music.

And you know, if you're coming up as a musician or as a singer, you don't live in a vacuum.

You absorb music from other genres when you hear them.

But, you don't absorb them, if you don't hear them.

And so Norman's first influence on this, was to expose a lot of teen musicians, to what was going on in Black music.

- When I had my first Rhythm and Blues group, my Negro groups, and I got a driver's license, I can't tell you how many times my car hood was carved in as a such and such lover and a no good Jew.

And it was alarming at first.

I started to get used to it.

It was very hard having all Black groups.

And the funny thing is my audience was white.

They loved those groups.

And then when I had the second go around, when I put Clarence in my band.

I was working eight months ahead with bookings.

The minute I put him in the band, I get 6 months worth of cancellations.

Don't bring that man here.

We don't want him here.

I said, well, then we're not coming.

What?

I said, no, we're not coming.

What?

You're talking about 6, 7 months worth of work.

I said, I don't care what it is.

I bleed red.

They bleed red, your heart stops, you die.

He said, well, that's a lousy philosophy.

Well, the same people called back 7 months later, and said, we'd like to renew those dates.

I said, sure, put some zeroes on back of it.

Well, we don't have a problem with that, now.

I said, well, I do.

So it's going to cost.

And I've never seen anything in my life, that anybody was different than me.

And I saw what was going on.

Everything was different.

Different side of the tracks, Asbury park.

One side of the tracks was all the good Black music.

And the other side was all White.

I integrated that.

Believe me, I paid the price, but I don't care.

I was never afraid of that.

And everybody's equal to me; color, race, creed, skinny, tall, overweight.

It doesn't make any difference to me.

It's what you can do and your integrity of how you do it.

And if you can't maintain that, you can't work for me.

- [Speaker] When did you and Clarence Clemons start playing music together?

- Well, we were playing at John barleycorn which is right before the Asbury circle.

And of course we had a nice crowd and totally White crowd.

And Clarence had a flat tire out in front.

He came over to use the payphone.

They had such a thing and there was a payphone, you know?

And he walked in.

He said, oh, there's a band here.

You know, I said, yeah, he looks over.

He said, you guys let people sit in?

I said, what do you play?

He said sax.

I said, sure.

So he was going to sit in for about 20 minutes.

He stayed for the 3 hours.

The people in the audience were like, huh.

And my drummer was, he said, you're not going to do this again.

We can't go through this again.

I said, yeah, that's no worry.

I got done.

I said, how'd you like to be with this band?

He goes, Will you get me a booking?

I said, I'll give you four nights a week right now, for the next 7 months.

He said me?

I said, yeah you.

And I never let him know what happened with, you know, with the racial issues.

It wasn't any business of his.

And people canceled.

I got other work, went out of town.

We went to different venues and it all worked out it.

And he ended up going on.

Bruce heard him with me and he ended up having a great career there.

We stayed very, very close.

He produced an entire CD with me, which is on some of my recordings with most of the E street guys.

So it is just something you do.

It was natural to me.

I didn't see anybody being unequal.

And you know, I'm sure Ryan feels the same way.

We all have our stuff thrown in our face.

You shouldn't do this.

You shouldn't do that.

I have to do what I feel is right.

And when I don't get any feedback from it, then I think it's right.

And I'm just very adamant about that.

[piano plays] - [Speaker] Why is Norman so it important to you personally?

- [Ryan] Because Norman's story, is the story of a working musician.

And it means different things to different people.

But a lot of people, Especially fans, especially people that aren't necessarily, you know, involved in the business, see the artists out front, and they see the big names, And the ones, you know, the ones who are really in the zeitgeist, you know.

But, the guns aren't always in the zeitgeist, because they're more concerned with just working, you know.

And it's about just making a living and being a working musician.

And those are the guys in the business that I admire the most, because whether they've entered the zeitgeist or not, whether they've been famous or not, you know, they continue to work because that's what they do.

Because they're working musicians.

- [Speaker] You like to work with class hero musicians, I guess.

- Yes.

And there's plenty of them out there that portray that personality, so to speak.

And there's others who are actually living that reality of being a working class musician, who's going from gig to gig, and is fighting with promoters, and is working with bands, and is doing all the kinds of hard logistics behind having a real career.

As opposed, to just entering the zeitgeist, you know.

Which is great, but not the reality for most musicians, you know, most working artists.

- [Speaker] What do you think Norman's legacy will be?

- I think his legacy is that he was a major part of the conversation.

And that he was there, and that he was a part of that.

And he helped to create.

He was in, and he's always been a part of that conversation.

He's a working musician.

He's been working for a long time, and continues to work.

And it's important to recognize those players, and those writers, and those producers, who are a part of the fabric of the story.

Whether or not they're the guy, who's the top billed in the world, you know.

It's not out about that.

It's about the music.

And Norman's served the song, consistently throughout his career.

You know, he served the people he's played with.

He served the gigs that he's played.

He served the style that he's been asked to play.

He's always, you know, it's in service of the art.

[piano music plays]