♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ (music fades) Sierra Artemus> Welcome to Palmetto Perspectives.

I'm your host, Sierra Artemus.

Our show tonight, Healing the Hurt, truly hits home, as South Carolina has historically ranked high amongst other states for domestic violence.

Recognizing the red flags or warning signs could very well make all the difference.

So what factors contribute to abuse?

What is currently happening to protect victims and break the cycle?

And just as important, what can we do as a community to help?

Joining us is a panel of experts who work tirelessly to help prevent and assist those in need.

Leah Weiss, Chief executive officer for Sister Care, Ashley Olayinka, founder and CEO of the Hive Community Circle, and Sara Barber, executive director of the South Carolina Coalition Against Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault, all join us tonight.

Thank you all for being here.

All> Thank you.

Sierra> We do want to warn that some viewers may find tonight's topic sensitive, including our younger viewers.

So we're going to jump right in.

Again, thank you all so much for being here.

I know that there are two terms that I have heard with speaking with all of you individually.

And there's domestic violence and then there's intimate partner violence.

I want to start with that because some people may feel that they're interchangeable, but are they?

Is there really a difference?

> I will go first.

So I think domestic violence is a more traditional term, the term that's been used historically.

But I think intimate partner violence is what we tend to use now because it is a broader definition.

It's a broader definition of the relationships that are involved.

I think when you say domestic violence, people think of generally a husband and wife having conflict within their marriage.

But we know there are so many different kinds of relationships now.

Yes, we still have spouses, but we have same sex couples who may or may not be married.

We have people who are living together, and then we have dating partners too.

But the violence that can happen within those relationships all stems from the same reasons.

The dynamics are the same.

And in many ways the outcomes are very similar.

So to use intimate partner violence, I think is just a more inclusive term that helps people also understand that this could be happening to them just because they're not in a traditional kind of relationship.

Sierra> Absolutely.

And I know that there are some issues within laws, you know, trying to create change.

And sometimes there are more resources for those who are co-habitating versus those who are just simply dating, which I thought was the reason, well my reasoning for bringing that up, because changing in our legislators, one of the legislators, one of the things that we are advocating for, you know, as wanting to help individuals who are in these situations.

So I want to kind of run things back.

We talked about the intergenerational effects of domestic violence.

What are the longer term implications if we don't address things from our past first?

Ashley Olayinka> Well, I can answer that question, as someone who grew up in a home, as a secondary survivor of domestic violence, when it's not addressed, it can continue in your own life.

You can find yourself on either side.

You might find yourself on both sides at some point.

But then it also can stem to your own children.

And so if you don't break that cycle, it truly becomes intergenerational because you don't have the ability to understand and recognize how the behaviors are causing harm, not to just yourself, to individuals that you love, whether that is your partner or whether that is your children.

And so it's so important that we, we recognize that prevention is key.

But also when you're working with the survivor or the victim, you have to also ensure that there are services that are inclusive to the children as well.

So, it has to encompass everyone.

Trauma doesn't happen in an isolated way.

It doesn't impact in an isolated way.

And so you have to ensure that every individual that has been a part of that environment receives the support that they need.

Sierra> Wonderfully said.

And Leah, I was going to ask you, and I know you're going to answer, but I want to ask you specifically, we talked offline, and you mentioned that there was a correlation between women who were incarcerated and homeless, and many of the things that they experienced were intergenerational, which kind of contributed to where they were now.

Talk a little more about that.

Leah Wicevic> Absolutely.

Statistics show that little girls who grow up in violent homes have a greater chance of being victims, and little boys that grow up in violent homes have a greater chance of being perpetrators.

And we see that so much in the work that we do at Sister Care.

1 in 10 kids witness violence in their homes, and adverse childhood experiences are real.

And being a secondary witness to domestic violence, maybe never even seen it, but hearing it and knowing that it exists and knowing that it's normalized, when that's all you know and it's never addressed, and you go to school and you get in relationships, that is your normal to you, you don't know any different.

And we've seen women, whether it's in our incarcerated victims program or in our shelter or in our community based programs, that's exactly what is happening.

It's they don't even recognize oftentimes that cycle of intergenerational violence until we talk to them about it in counseling and they're like, "Oh, well, that was how I grew up."

"And that is what I thought was normal."

And to have, when they had that aha moment to know that they're going to break that cycle, it's huge.

We recently had a client that came.

She was in our shelter 20 years ago.

She witnessed violence in her home.

She had a little girl at the time, and now she came back 20 years to say thank you.

And her daughter, who is now in her early 20s, said I, we broke the cycle.

Sierra> Wonderful, wonderful.

Did anyone else want to add to that?

Because I really want to get to another great, great segue to this.

You know, for the people who think that domestic violence is a young person's problem.

I want to talk to you, Sara.

What do you say to them?

Sierra> Yes.

And it obviously the greatest impacts we see, the greatest numbers that we see are in people in their 20s and 30s.

But we also know that it impacts people as young as middle school.

And we also know that it impacts people who, older people in their 60s and above.

You know, last year I was at the Attorney General's Silent Witness program, which honors the lives of people who've lost, who've been murdered the year before by their partners.

And the pastor who was doing the benediction at the beginning.

He was there because one of his congregants, who was 86 years old, had been murdered by her ex-husband.

There were two other people listed in that book who were over 70.

And I think we tend to just assume that once people are past a certain age, that this doesn't happen anymore.

And so there are even fewer services for older people.

People who are older may feel a lot, a lot of shame about what is happening in their relationships.

And it may be something that's gone on for decades, or somebody may have been in a relationship that wasn't violent, and then that partner died.

They got in a new relationship, and suddenly they're in their 70s, and for the first time, they're experiencing violence and they don't know what to do.

People who are older are also less likely to want to leave and go into a shelter.

I mean, a shelter is kind of a last resort for everybody.

And when you're older, it can be really intimidating.

I think the other thing to think about is, you know, in South Carolina, we have a lot of older people moving here because we have a great climate.

It's cheaper to live here.

And so people come and retire here, and we have very few services for them.

And we see increasing numbers of older people suffering from dementia, which can impact their relationships, can lead to new tensions and new levels of violence.

And so, you know, we at SCCADVASA are trying to really focus on that population as well, because we heard from a prosecutor that she had road officers who were responding to domestic violence calls where either the victim or the perpetrator had dementia.

And they're like, what do I do?

And so we're really trying to start from really ground zero of trying to build up awareness that this is an issue for people, and trying to make sure that all our member programs, all our community partners, are ready and willing to welcome older victims or older offenders into their services.

Leah> I've seen in my years at Sister Care, many victims of intimate partner violence that were older, and most of them told me that the only time that they got their freedom was when their abuser died.

And that was, that was the freedom for them.

And they endured it their entire lives.

And so it is important that we focus on the elderly population as well.

I think it's often overlooked for many different reasons, but domestic violence certainly occurs.

Ashley> Yeah, I would just add that I think a big part of that as well is that we have to think about the norms of the older generation that they were taught, that this is how we, how we operate in a relationship, that this is normal, that you don't speak up, that you don't, you know, advocate for yourself, or that you turn the cheek.

And oftentimes, you know, that could be because there was a one income household with older generations.

And then sometimes, again, it's just because of culturally they've been taught that this is how we deal with it.

We just accept it.

We move through it.

There, there may be resources, but to, to be aware of those resources or to even have the words.

To be honest with you, I think that a lot of older people don't have the words necessarily to even express or articulate what they are experiencing.

And when they sit in a room at a training, I can't tell you how many times I've gone to do a training at a church just recently, and the number of women that came up to me afterwards that said that they were living in those exact situations, but it was because I gave them the words to put to it that they were able to then identify that they themselves were someone that was experiencing victimization.

So culture is also a really huge part of that as well.

Sierra> Absolutely.

And I want to stay right there too.

I wanted to kind of ask the question I'm getting ready to ask now, once we talked about teen dating and just adult dating, but being here, you mentioned something as people in your, in this church that you were speaking at were coming.

How do we recognize that a, an older person is being abused and, and when we do, what do we do?

Because many people are really set in their ways, as you mentioned, you're shamed or you feel like you're at this point in your life, you don't really want to talk about it.

But if you're a person that is recognizing something is off, what are we looking for?

Ashley> Yeah, I would say that some of the things that you may be looking for, it depends.

So it could be around finances, how spending is happening, if they have access to funds or if they don't, how control might be showing up in the relationship?

You know, are there, does their spouse have to take them everywhere they go?

Or do they have to know their whereabouts?

Are they constantly having to check in?

And so it's really not a, I personally think, you all definitely weigh in, but I don't think that it's necessarily about it looks different.

Again, I think it's about how you explain what the different ways that one can experience intimate partner violence.

And once you do that, that is where people are able to relate.

We're not necessarily looking necessarily for something different, but again, being able to help people understand that you can experience abuse through financial abuse, emotional, psychological, digital.

So these various ways that it can show up.

And once you do that, they're able to then identify and see the patterns.

But again, it's being able to help them understand and know that it's beyond physical.

It doesn't just mean that it's a black eye.

Abuse can show up in so many other forms than that.

Sara> I think it's so important to use plain language in explaining these things, because if you say financial abuse, someone's like, well, that doesn't apply to me.

But then if you talk about, do you have access to any money?

Are you given an allowance?

Are receipts checked?

Those kind of things, then bring it home as, "Oh, well, maybe this is happening to me."

I think for older people, as I sort of mentioned, you know, the increasing rates of dementia and Alzheimer's do add a little bit of a different dynamic because we have the caretaking situation going on there.

And so a victim may be totally dependent on their abuser to take care of them.

And we have very, you know, because we have scattered families, often there is no one else to be there.

I heard a heart-breaking story earlier this year where a woman had left her abusive husband when they were younger.

Now he's suffering from dementia and her children aren't around.

And so she has moved back in to take care of him because she feels that's her responsibility.

And so she had left, and now she's gone back.

And so we're really trying to find ways to support her while also respecting her decision making.

And so that is true for all victims of domestic violence, is recognizing that they are the expert in their lives, but supporting them through their choices and giving them options as well.

Sierra> What can we do for a person who may just be used to this?

And if you offer help and they're like, "I don't need help", what do you do?

Do you?

And I know there's, there's always that feeling as a person wanting to help assist someone in the situation.

I'm asking as a person in the community, because there are probably people in the community that are like, I'm recognizing some of these things as you all are speaking, what do I do?

How do I help them?

And let's, let's talk about that.

Leah> Yeah, it's, that is one of the biggest questions that we get at Sister Care is how do you know?

I have, I have a family member or I have a friend that's experiencing intimate partner violence.

What do I do?

And it's hard.

I mean, it takes courage to, to talk to your friend or your family member, but also you have to be patient and non-judgmental, and you have to let that victim know that you support them, that you're here for them.

You'll help them create a safety plan.

But ultimately, it has to be their decision and their timeline most likely will not be your timeline.

You want them out now, and it takes an average of leaving 6 or 7 times before you leave for good.

And as a friend, it can be very frustrating when you give advice and, and your friend leaves the abuser then comes back and leaves and come back and you might as well throw your hands in the air and say, I've tried, you know, but you have to be patient and supportive, non-judgmental, because a lot of times we forget that victims love their abuser.

They want it to work.

They want them to change.

They want that cycle to be broken.

And so it's that patience is really the key.

And just being an active listener.

Sierra> Did anyone else want to weigh in before?

Ashley> And I would just add to it the consistent grace.

So with that patience, you know, being that constant grace in their lives, to know that regardless of whether they go back, whether they never leave, that you're going to be there to support them because that can be a determining factor, knowing whether or not you have someone that you can talk to, that's not going to judge you, where you don't feel shameful, where you don't feel like you're guilty, you know, because maybe you didn't leave the times that you said that you were.

It's so important to know that they have that person that or those that community of people who are going to be that consistent support in their lives.

Sara> I think it's important to recognize that people can be absolutely terrified and still want that relationship to work out.

They want the violence to end, but they love this person.

They may have children with that person.

And when we talk about leaving, it's easy to tell someone to leave.

It's very hard to leave.

You know, oftentimes you'll hear people say, well, why didn't she leave?

And the answer to that really is leave and go where?

You know, it's go where?

I mean, especially if there's been financial abuse and you have no way of paying for anything and you're terrified.

And the other thing to remember is that victims sometimes know better than anyone else the level of danger that they are in.

And leaving a relationship can be the most dangerous time.

You know, we see the highest number of homicides when somebody has left or has tried to leave.

And so that patience, that grace, that steadiness in always being there, no matter how different their timeline is than what you would like it to be, is absolutely critical.

Sierra> And I want to talk a little bit because I'm grateful that you mentioned, you know, when people are hearing these stories, a lot of times it's easy, especially if you're not in that situation to say or have never been in that situation to say, "Hey, just leave."

But there are other very harmful stigmas as well, particularly as it relates to men.

Let's talk about that.

I want to sit here for a second.

Why is it so difficult for men to get the help that they need, and why are there so limited resources for them when they are in an abusive situation?

Ashley> Are you speaking to them as the perpetrator Sierra> As a victim.

Ashley> As a victim.

Sara> I think that this has primarily been seen as an issue that impacts women as victims, because it's true that it is.

When we look at SLED data, say, 75% of domestic violence, ranging from simple assault up through homicide, is men doing that violence to women.

And we have extremely limited resources.

And so the resources have been put historically in the place where the need is greatest.

After saying that, I don't want anybody to think that I am sort of negating the impact of women's violence towards men.

It certainly exists, especially, I think, on the lower levels of violence, what we refer to as sort of situational common couple violence.

And there are fewer resources, and it is something that we need to work on.

I mean, if somebody's a male calls us, we refer them to one of our member programs, and our expectation is that they will be treated with respect and they will be listened to.

And some alternative way of supporting them will be found.

You know, maybe a communal shelter is not the place, but there are other ways of providing safe accommodation to people and providing separate services to them.

Ashley> And I would say at the Hive.

So we're a dual based organization.

We serve individuals impacted by both sexual assault and intimate partner violence, but we do serve men.

We don't have our formal program like our healing circles that are for men, but we do serve them.

But it's one of the reasons why we were intentional about starting outreach this year for men and boys, because we understand that they do experience it.

And I think that as much as we as women, there's the stigmas there.

For men, I think it's even compounding.

It's more because as a man, you're told that you can't express and show your emotions.

If you're in this type of situation, you're automatically looked at as being weak and which could then even make someone become volatile if they're not, because, well, now I'm weak as a man.

And so I think just as a community and a society, we really haven't created spaces as Sara alluded to for men to be able to say, this is happening to me too, and ensuring that we have more services, more resources, because when it comes to things like housing, shelter, there's not a lot, there's, it's very limited for women with children.

And I know that Leah can speak more to that.

But then if it's a male, the shelters that may be available to them.

And if they have children, it's, it's going to be less.

So there are definitely a lack of resources for men and boys.

And we also, again, understand that, that is because women and girls are the ones that experience it at higher rates.

And that's where resources, more resources have been pulled in at.

Leah> At Sister Care, we do serve men.

And if, if a male is actively fleeing a violent situation, we do make sure that they're put somewhere safe.

We have motels and confidential locations that we established during COVID, actually.

But, you know, en route with law enforcement and all of that.

And what's interesting, you know, we talk so much about stigma is that we hear so much from men that they just couldn't believe that we believed them.

And, and knowing that women have that exact same, those exact same feelings.

And so being able to serve men know that we're here for them.

We serve, we treat male clients just like we treat our female clients.

We're a trauma informed agency.

We meet clients where they are.

But knowing that we too can be non-judgmental and understanding that males do experience domestic violence, and you are not weak for coming forward.

You're not a liar and trying to shift blame for coming forward and being able to provide those comprehensive services, just like we would with our female victims.

Sierra> And Sara with SCCADVASA you don't work directly with the victims.

You work with the allies.

Is there any sort of training for men or catered to men in any way?

Or what are, what are some trainings that you all are doing in general, for anyone that may want to help someone with in, in those sorts of scenarios?

Sara> So we, our training is really focused on building capacity of people responding to survivors for all survivors.

We have not done a special training on responding to to male survivors, but I feel that many of the actions that would be taken are the same and rooted in that same trauma informed approach and that same respect and belief that we extend to women.

We do, do some work with the Fatherhood Initiative on building men who are working with the Fatherhood Initiative on their understanding of the dynamics of domestic violence.

So that would be our focus.

And then, you know, we although we don't provide direct services as such, we do have a legal program.

And that program would be available to male survivors.

Sierra> And with that being said, the warning signs for intimate partner violence for men and women, are they the same or are there certain things to look out for one or the other?

Ashley> Yeah, I would say that they're largely the same.

Yeah, I would say they're largely the same.

And I'll just add to it with our Men and Boys outreach initiative.

As a survivor based, survivor led organization, the reason why we're wanting to start with the outreach is because we want men to inform us of what programing beyond what we already have needs to look like for them, right.

Because our organization predominantly we're all employed.

It's all women.

And so we want to be able to hear from them directly around what do programs for your, for you need to look like so that we can ensure that when we are creating those programs, that they're the ones that are informing it and also helping to drive it forward as well.

So we want to be as intentional and mindful as we can, and being able to provide the effective programing for them.

Sierra> Absolutely.

Well, we want to take a moment to ask our audience questions.

I know there are several organizations joining us tonight.

Is there anyone that may like to add to our discussion or may have any questions for our panelists that you'd like to ask?

Not everybody at once.

Yes, ma'am.

Let's get her a mic.

Oh, we have someone.

Okay.

And then we have a young lady in the front, as well.

Speaker #1> Hi, Kimberly South with Pathways to Healing.

Thank you all for this amazing conversation.

This is really helpful in making sure that this cycle is broken.

What are some options for how we are training our young men in schools?

You know, we've got some prevention education that, that we do, but how can we spread that, you know, across even more communities?

Because especially in our rural areas, it's very difficult.

And rural almost makes it harder to report.

And we may not see the numbers that we see maybe in our urban areas, but we know it's happening.

So that prevention part, I think is very important.

So can you guys speak on that?

Leah> Yeah, that's such a great question, especially incorporating that rural piece.

Prevention is so important working with teenagers, middle and high schoolers and college students is so important.

And for many years I've been at Sister Care for 17 years and applying for grants.

Years ago, everybody wanted to fund crisis intervention, services for the here and now.

And that is so important and there will always be a need for that.

But prevention was always kind of overlooked.

It was kind of like an extra, you know, like that's not our priority.

But I do believe in recent years there has been more research and things like that.

And so we are seeing more funding available for prevention efforts.

You know, at Sister Care, we do have a teen outreach program where we go to schools, we work with after school clubs, we work with coaches to be able to educate these teens about healthy relationships.

And what are red flags and green flags and, you know, bringing culture into it.

And what we're seeing in the news.

And we just need more funding.

We can't, we can't do more with less.

As Sara always says, when she's advocating for, for us.

But those rural communities especially have additional barriers.

There's such a lack of resources.

There's a lack of transportation.

And those smaller communities, domestic violence is almost more it seems to be more normalized They're so small and everybody's talking and everybody knows everybody's business.

And if I leave, where do I go kind of thing?

And so getting into those rural communities and talking with these kids when they haven't been exposed or had conversations about healthy relationships is critical.

But also another piece of it is educating parents, too.

Parents need to know how to talk to their kids about healthy relationships.

We can educate and do all we can, but parents need to have a part of that.

And it's a difficult conversation.

But we talk to kids about lots of hard things.

You know, don't do drugs, you know, those kinds of things.

We need to talk to them about relationships too.

Sara> I think that's so important.

You know, we had a program with the Junior League of Columbia for the past two years in really trying to train people to be ambassadors for healthy relationships, because people just don't want to talk about, well, they certainly don't want to talk about sex with their teenagers.

But doing that is a critical part of prevention of both sexual assault, but also domestic violence and respect and consent.

And, you know, schools are so limited in their time.

We ask them to do so much that for this to be an ongoing process, which it needs to be, because it can't be a one and done, check the box.

Parents need to be involved.

Faith communities need to be involved.

Right now, we're planning our prevention programing for next year, and we're purposely inviting male experts from working in colleges to come and host sessions here.

You know, especially in the wake of what we're seeing and what happened in Cornell and other campuses.

So bringing those men who have spent their careers dedicated to thinking about these issues, bringing them to talk, because oftentimes, too, we have to recognize that men may be better messengers to other men.

Ashley> Yeah.

And I would definitely agree with both what Sara and Leah have shared and with our curriculum that we have at the Hive, the Buzz Pack, we have also Buzz Pack 2.0.

So it's teaching young people.

We have a version that's for middle high school and college students.

And it also has a component that's for parents to be able to educate parents around how to foster healthy relationships with their young person, how to be able to have conversations around consent.

So the curriculum is centered around that consent and around healthy relationships.

And I think that we, as Sara alluded to, we have to look beyond just the schools because they're so limited.

And so being able to work with community centers, being able to whether that's, you know, faith based as well.

But it really is going to take all of us.

And I think we have to be really creative because time is of essence.

And everyone says, I don't have time for the next thing.

So how do we prioritize it?

How do we make it help to make it a priority for parents?

Because as I tell parents all the time, we can teach and educate your young person, but if you're not reinforcing it and you're not creating that structure and that environment at the home, it does a disservice to the conversations that we're having with them, because young people first learn about relationships in the home, whether that's platonic or romantic, their relationship that they have in the home of who they are being raised by, that is what informs and shapes how they establish relationships with other people.

Leah> Yeah.

We just have to normalize the conversation.

We just have to talk about it over and over again.

You know, 1 in 10 kids are seeing domestic violence in their homes.

We're seeing it with celebrities.

We're seeing it on Tik Tok.

We're hearing it in the words of songs.

And we have to change that narrative.

It's very important that we talk to these kids, Sierra> And we're going to take another question.

Brittany Howell?

Yes, go ahead.

Brittany Howell> Yeah.

Brittany Howell, interim director of Domestic Abuse Center.

It's interesting that you asked that question, because it's exactly what I was going to bring up.

I will just say in the group sessions that I lead, I do hear from so many men saying, why did I not learn this until now?

You know, these men are in their 30s, 40s, 50s and up thinking.

I think maybe I could have avoided this altogether if I had learned it before.

And it is something that is always challenging for me to answer in groups, to let them know, you know, obviously we want you to learn this information sooner, but I think it is too... all, all of you have said resources are limited.

So I would I would love to be a part of trying to figure out how we can bring that to the community, bring that to the younger generation, so many of them, especially with technology and texting, harassment has been something that is unbelievably out of hand.

And I think for our younger folks that are in the program see that a lot is the constant texting over and over and over and wanting responses from their partner and not realizing that that's violating boundaries.

So that education piece I think is so important.

Ashley> Yeah.

And oh, <Go ahead.> I'm sorry.

And to say as a mother of a teen, my daughter is 15.

Well, I have two teens, a 15 year and a 13 year old.

I would say too, you know, I have to give consent for my kids to learn about sex ed if I want them to participate.

I think that we need to have mandated courses, even if it's introductory to healthy relationships or to consent, because yes, while we may be in the schools, that's optional and it's not something that the district is enforcing.

It's optional.

Each school can choose whether or not, you know, if they want to work with that organization.

And so I think that having, number one wants something that's mandated or looking at how do we partner with established programs like the Boys and Girls Club or Girl Scouts or Boy Scouts to make it a part of their curriculum or where we're able to come in?

I think that, that definitely supports because, you know, as you talk about that, I think about my daughter, who recently we had a conversation about location sharing.

She was sharing her location with a young man who likes her and our coroner, Richland County coroner, Naida Rutherford said, you can never be too nosey, as a parent.

You need to know all of your children's business.

And so, you know, I was all in my daughter's phone and, and became aware of this.

But my daughter didn't understand initially why it wasn't okay for this young man to have her location.

Because why?

Because they share their location with all of their friends.

All of their friends know their location with one another.

And so we had to talk about boundaries.

We had to talk about, well, what level of a friendship do I need to have with someone that they know my location?

I deleted the 360 app off her phone because I'm like, no one should know your whereabouts like that more than me and your father.

So again, even as parents, we have to be nosy.

We have to know everything about our children and what they are engaged in.

And we have to become educated because if not, technology will pass us and we won't be able to keep up.

And the trends and everything that is happening.

And it will also surpass this terminology.

So my daughter wanted to watch Love Island.

I'm watching it with you.

And if it's something we need to go past because that's not appropriate, we're going to do that too.

But again, I think it's just so important that parent component.

Yes, as organizations, we have a responsibility, but parents have that first responsibility.

Leah> And Ashley, you're exactly right.

The parent responsibility, especially that digital technological abuse, we have seen an explosion and it is terrifying.

I mean, it's honestly as a as a mother of a five year old, I mean, I'm just, just, it's just terrifying to see how this digital abuse has escalated.

Texting your girlfriend or your boyfriend 500 times a day.

Why aren't you answering?

Where are you?

Why aren't you texting?

You said you were going to be home, but your app is saying that you're not home.

Where are you?

They're starting this isolation and power and control at a young age?

We're seeing kids, you know, pull away from sports they did or after school activities and or living, just like we would see an adult victim of domestic violence at a very young age.

And so having those conversations and knowing what your kids are doing is so important.

There was a stint in my life where I coached cross country, and these girls would come to me and they would, you know, about sending photos, but they... They were embarrassed to tell their parents.

They were embarrassed to tell anybody at school, but I was their safe person.

So how do we make these safe people in our community?

Who are those people going to be?

But they were harming themselves self harm, and it was someone that cared about these girls.

It was so upsetting to see.

But those pictures had gotten distributed.

And what's unfortunate is that AI is making it way worse, and we have got to stay on top of it because I, it scares me to think about how A.I.

can perpetuate that digital abuse with these young kids even more.

But we've, we've got to get funders.

We've got to get the government.

We've got to get everyone to see that this is an urgent issue.

This is not just prevention education, something that's the extra funding that it used to be.

This needs to be something in the here and now, or we're never going to get to the root.

We can band-aid all we want, but if we don't get to the root of the problem, it's just going to keep perpetuating into future generations.

Sierra> Thank you.

Leah, we have a question from the audience.

Desiree> Hi, my name is Desiree.

Honestly, you guys, you both said something that really not necessarily triggered me but made me think about.

So I recently had a book club where we read Know My Name by Chanel Miller, and it really made me think in the sense of we, we focus so much on teaching women safety or preparedness or relationships and stuff like that, but we're not focusing on men as much.

And like 9 or 8 out of ten times, they're the perpetrators.

And like you said, they don't know.

I've had conversations with guys that, you know, let's think about college and going and getting drunk and the female is drunk and then next thing they know, consent wasn't there.

And now it's rape or, you know, sexual assault or something like that,...but they thought, okay, we both were so we should, it should be okay.

And I think that we should spend time educating more of the men because they're the ones, you know, statistically committing these crimes at a higher rate.

And I feel like the reason why sometimes they are is because they're not educated on what's right, what's wrong, what's the boundaries, you know, how should I speak to a woman, approach a woman, you know, and they're seeing it through their own culture, music.

Now, I don't want to say necessarily mentors, but people older than them and seeing, you know, it's like this cycle, that...continues to go or grow and become what it is.

But I do really believe strongly that, you know, and even talking about parents, you can't, if a parent is broken, they're going to teach broken, you know, healed what... hurt people, hurt people, healed people, heal people or help people.

So in the sense of, you know, you, I know we have this expectation on parents, but if they're hurt, if they're broken, if they're going through this thing, how can we expect them to do it?

Now, full disclosure, you know, I grew up in a home that had domestic violence as well and not to be funny or whatever, but it didn't.

I said to myself, if I was ever in that situation, I would take a sock and I would take a pool ball.

I'm ready for it.

But I've never been in that situation.

I found myself actually being the person to inflict hurt because I didn't know how to express certain aspects of what was going on in that relationship.

And it took, you know, a deep dive for me.

And I'm still deep diving into understanding that trauma because not all the time is it, you know, like eight out of ten, it is a male, but there are times that females are the perpetrators as well.

But essentially, I feel that, you know, it is a big question on who's responsibility.

You know, if you see something, and I think it's everyone's responsibility because I feel like we're in this world now where everybody takes their phone and they're recording it instead of stopping it or trying to figure out how to stop it.

So, you know, that's yeah.

<Thank you.> My thing.

Yeah.

Sara> I think what you said about it's everyone's job.

It's everybody, it's communities, right?

And it takes a village to make things better.

But it also, you know, I recently saw a novelist, Marlon James, talk about abuse in terms of it takes a village to heal, but it also takes a village to abuse.

And abuse has a lot of neighbors.

And so when we don't do anything, when we stand by and watch things happen, when we don't step in, even if we're not providing what we know people need or our systems don't respond appropriately, then we're part of that village that lets abuse happen.

And we need to do a lot of self-reflection as communities.

I think, to get past that.

Ashley> Yeah, I would say it's definitely a collective.

I like to say collective community.

It is because interpersonal violence within itself is a public health crisis.

And I think until we begin to see it through that lens, it won't become a priority on a national level or state level or local like it needs to.

I would also say that I can't tell you how many times I've also gone into spaces to do trainings, and the conversations are centered around girls because, or women, because it's believed that we are the ones that bring the harm upon ourselves.

There are a lot of communities that believe that.

And it's also why, when you talk to them about wanting to do prevention, they first want to bring the girls to you because their focus is on, well.

well, if they would dress differently or if they didn't act this way or they didn't carry themselves this way, then perhaps that's not happening.

So there's so much miseducation in the community as well.

And so even when we can have well intentions, we can create harm in that as well.

And so I think by understanding that we have a collective responsibility, right, to, to be informed, to educate ourselves, to not, you know, record and turn the cheek or see something and be so desensitized by it that we don't say anything at all, or we entertain it because we watch episodes of reality TV or other things that we know is toxic and harmful, but we continue to watch it and we help the views go up and they continue to create these same shows.

But it's because as a society, again, we're the ones that's supporting it.

So I think that it's a collective responsibility that we all have to take ownership.

Because the reality is, as I shared earlier, you can find yourself on either side of...of the fence.

You can find yourself in being that person who may be perpetuating that harm, but you also might find yourself, you know, being the person that is experiencing it.

And so, but if you're not educated, you're not going to be able to recognize when you are on either or side of those of those fences.

Leah> And we have to get community buy in.

You know, we can't be a collective voice, which we should if we don't have the community buy in and we're not all the way there yet.

We're just not.

I think we've made a lot of progress since the 70s and 80s, and breaking down walls and shattering stigmas, but people don't want to talk about it.

You know, it's private, you know, it happens to other people.

It doesn't happen to people like me.

People don't want to talk about it.

And until they're willing to face it head on and say, it's happening, if it's not you.

It's your next door neighbor.

It's the person you're sitting by at church.

It's your kid's teacher.

It's happening.

And we have got to own that.

And we've got to continue having these conversations and making it a true community issue with that buy in.

Sierra> Yes.

And just because it's something that you hear happens often does not mean it's normal or that it should happen.

And I want we have one more question to get to in the audience before we get to our final thoughts.

Kai> Hi, my name is Kai and I just kind of want to piggyback off of Desiree.

And basically I witnessed two separate instances of domestic violence against men.

I used to live in an apartment complex and this young lady used to fight her boyfriend all the time.

And I also witnessed just on the street, just kind of like what you all were talking about, a gentleman, he was in a wheelchair and he was being beat up by his girlfriend.

So I want to know, statistically, do you think that the rate of male abuse is maybe not as high, but a lot higher than what we think it is because, A, they don't report it as much as women, but B, they don't recognize it for what it is.

Maybe they just think, oh, my girlfriend is crashing out or, you know, as the young people say nowadays, or, you know, that's just, you know, she's just acting, you know, whatever kind of way today, but essentially, repetitively, it is violence.

So do you think statistically, male abuse is a lot higher than what, what's being reported?

Sara> I think abuse that everyone is a lot higher than is being reported.

And if you look at CDC data from the National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, men and women report about the same levels of physical violence when it's put in terms of being slapped or hit, when we see the difference.

And, you know, you obviously saw a different thing is like the long term effects or the much higher levels of violence.

That is then when we see the gender divide.

But for situational violence, like I was talking about earlier, then the levels of self report for men and women tend to be very similar, when it reaches the law enforcement level.

We see much higher levels of women as victims.

Sierra> I wanted to be sure, before we end our show today to talk about abuser support, as well.

I mean, we've heard that there are programs.

We even have some here joining us tonight.

But let's talk about what we're doing or what may you all may be doing to, to help them because again, they're victims as well.

Many of them as we talk about intergenerational issues, they're also victims as well.

So what are we doing to, to help them to heal or to grow from the, their errors?

Sara> I used to work for the first 13 years of my career in domestic violence response I worked at the domestic abuse center that we saw in the film earlier.

And it is primarily a court mandated program.

So people will be sent there or to programs like that.

We have other people from like Compass and other programs here, and it's a 26 week program.

So what you see through that is a lot of hostility and resentment at first, especially if there is that intergenerational pass down of violence because they watched their fathers and grandfathers do that, and nobody did anything.

Nobody was concerned about it.

And now they've done what they might consider a lot less, and they've been arrested, and now they've been sent to this program that they have to go to.

But what you see, you see an amazing amount of growth in people through those programs.

And when you ask people about abuse at the beginning, oftentimes they'll tell you something and you're a complete stranger, but they'll be like, I've never told anyone that before.

And then what it comes down to it, it's that nobody ever asked them before.

And so, you see, does it change everybody?

No.

But I've seen men grow.

Men and women in those programs grow an enormous amount through that 26 weeks.

And it's, 26 weeks seems like a long time.

It's six months, but it takes that long to go through a cycle of a relationship often, especially when you have violence because you go through honeymoon phases and all of that.

But that growth is really impressive when it happens.

And, you know, it was really good tonight seeing on the documentary, men speaking about how they had been so positively impacted by those programs.

And then that becomes the new generational pass down, right?

They've learned.

And so they can be better fathers and better partners.

And then we hope that the young people they're bringing up, don't need those programs.

Sierra> Absolutely.

And did anyone else want to hop in?

Ashley> Yeah, I would say we don't provide services to those that enact harm, but we do, if their partner, who is the survivor or the victim is asking for support, we do provide them with resources of those organizations that do.

But we as an organization, focus primarily on the survivor and their children.

Leah> We do have better intervention programs for women that are court mandated to get the counseling as well, or D.S.S.

is involved.

And it's, interesting because a lot of times the resentment is there too, and they're forced to come.

They don't want to be there.

But when I visit, group it's always one of my favorite things because to see how they bond together and are able to share their experiences, whether it's from childhood or from recent, recent experiences, and to see the growth that they have, they usually end up loving group, and we have many that stay well past the mandated time as well.

And so in terms of what Sister Care offers, providing that to women, we've seen a lot of, a lot of good results.

Sierra> Wonderful.

Well, as we are towards the end of our program today, I just want to take the opportunity for you all to share more information about your organizations and where people can go for more information.

So, Leah, since we are talking about some of the programs that you have at Sister Care.

If you can share more about what resources you all offer and how people can get in touch with you?

Leah> Absolutely.

We have a 24/7 crisis line, so we have crisis line advocates that are trained to do in-depth assessments, danger assessments, answer questions, and get survivors set up with any services that they need.

We have law enforcement that calls.

We have friends that call, family members, partner organizations, but that is available.

We have two emergency shelters for individuals that are fleeing and have nowhere else to go, and we're full, but we...provide that service along with any and everything that they may need while they're there.

We also have a clinical department.

So we have clinicians that are licensed that are able to provide clinical counseling at no cost to our survivors, whether it's individual counseling, family counseling.

And then of course, we have our peer support groups.

We also have a very robust legal program.

We have two attorneys on staff, and then we have court advocates in each of the five counties in the Midlands that we serve.

And our primary goal is to help survivors get orders of protection so they have that extra level of support and safety as they're navigating life without abuse.

And then we also have a rural program.

We have survivor, excuse me, advocates that are from rural communities.

They know, they have the trust of the community out there.

They live there and are able to meet survivors where they are because it's near impossible to get to downtown Columbia when you're, may not have transportation, or you may not be able to get away from the abuser, as well.

And then a big part of what we do is the prevention work and the education and outreach.

We want everyone to know about intimate partner violence, that it's not just physical, that Sister Care is here, that the Hive is here, that SCCADVASA is a resource, and so we're out there as much as we can be to educate and inform.

Sierra> Thank you Leah, and we have about two minutes left in the show.

So let's just share a little bit.

Ashley> A little bit about what we do.

So at the Hive, as I shared, we are a peer advocacy based organization.

So everyone that works at the Hive, we are the primary, secondary survivors of the services that we provide.

We provide peer advocacy.

So very similar to what Leah shared.

We also provide our services in Spanish and in English.

And then we also have a platform that we can use if the services need to be translated in another language.

We also provide counseling, wellness coaching.

We also have an economic well-being program, which is to support survivors with any economic need that they may have.

We provide our services both telehealth and in person, so that allows us to be able to provide that support across the state.

And then we also have our Casita of Care, which is a survivor boutique.

It's open to the community, every fourth Saturday of the month.

We have full size hygiene products and household items there.

And then we also, it's available to survivors every Thursday of the month.

And then I'm trying to make sure because you said two minutes.

If there's something that I missed on the survivor side, we have our healing circles.

And so our healing circles are a culturally responsive way in which we educate survivors around understanding the trauma, the impact of sexual assault or intimate partner violence.

And then we incorporate non-traditional healing modalities within that, as well.

Sierra> Perfect.

And lastly, Sara.

Sara> As the coalition, we, our focus is not on direct service, but we, we provide support for the organizations that do direct service.

We also do training both for them, for community members and for any systems that are also involved in the response to domestic violence.

We do policy work at the State House and also in D.C.

We do statewide prevention programing, and then we have a legal program which connects survivors with a lawyer at no cost to them to help with any civil legal needs that they have.

Sierra> Wonderful.

Well, I just want to thank you all again for being here and for joining us in our conversation today.

And we want to thank you all for watching.

And, of course, our audience for joining us as well.

And if you need any additional information on our guests and their organizations that can be found on our website, that's scetv.org.

And we also encourage you to continue to have the conversation and share this video to help bring awareness.

Again, I'm Sierra Artemus.

Good night.

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