OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> CATHY: IN THE NEXT HOUR, WE'LL TALK TO A MINNESOTAN WHO IS A NATIONAL EXPERT ON MASS SHOOTINGS.

WE'LL DEBATE THE POLITICS OF JANUARY 6.

AND WE'LL TREAT YOU TO A FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT MASTERPIECE IN A PLACE YOU MAY NOT EXPECT IT.

ALL THAT AND A LIVE PREVIEW OF THE TWIN CITIES JAZZ FEST.

ALL NEXT ON "ALMANAC."

♪♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY: GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 28 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A TRIBAL NATION FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY AND COLLABORATION, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES LIKE TODAY.

ENBRIDGE: CONNECTING MINNESOTANS WITH ENERGY FOR OVER 70 YEARS.

MORE AT ENBRIDGE.COM/LINE3US.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

"ONE GREATER MINNESOTA" REPORTING ON "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY: THE OTTO BREMER TRUST, WHOSE MISSION IS INVESTING IN PEOPLE, PLACES, AND OPPORTUNITIES IN OUR REGION.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY: THE BLANDIN FOUNDATION, WORKING TO STRENGTHEN RURAL MINNESOTA.

>> CATHY: IN A FEW MINUTES, WE'LL TALK ABOUT A NEW PLAN TO DEAL WITH PUBLIC SAFETY AND ACCOUNTABILITY.

PLUS A KAOMI LEE TOUR OF CLOQUET'S ONE-OF-A-KIND GAS STATION.

BUT FIRST UP IN THE HOUR, A NEW ATTEMPT IN CONGRESS TO ADDRESS GUN VIOLENCE.

>> ERIC: AFTER RECENT MASS SHOOTINGS IN BUFFALO AND SENATORS ANNOUNCED THIS WEEK A FRAMEWORK FOR COMPROMISE GUN LEGISLATION.

HOW WELL DOES THE BILL ADDRESS WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT MASS KILLERS?

OUR NEXT GUEST IS PART OF A TEAM THAT TRACKS MASS SHOOTINGS IN THE UNITED STATES.

"THE VIOLENCE PROJECT" IS A COMPREHENSIVE DATABASE TRACKING MORE THAN 200 VARIABLES ON EACH MASS SHOOTING IN AMERICA IN THE PAST 50 YEARS.

JAMES DENSLEY IS A CRIMINOLOGIST AT METRO STATE UNIVERSITY.

HE'S THE CO-FOUNDER, ALONG WITH JILLIAN PETERSON, OF THE VIOLENCE PROJECT.

PROFESSOR, JUST SEVEN YEARS AGO, TODAY, THAT MASS SHOOTING IN THE CHARLESTON BIBLE STUDY.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Eric: I THINK IT WAS NINE BLACK PARISHIONERS.

THERE ARE THESE ANNIVERSARIES ALL OVER THE PLACE.

I WONDER, TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR FEELING THAT THERE IS NO ONE PROFILE FOR A MASS SHOOTER.

CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT?

>> YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT.

I THINK MOST PEOPLE ARE LOOKING FOR THE ONE PROFILE THAT FITS THESE CRIMES.

AND AS YOU MENTIONED, THIS CAN BE A CHURCH SHOOTING, IT CAN BE A SCHOOL SHOOTING, CAN BE IN A WORKPLACE, IT CAN BE IN A DIFFERENT TYPE OF PUBLIC SPACE.

WHAT WE SEE MORE S A PATHWAY TO VIOLENCE.

SO IT'S NOT THAT THERE IS A PROFILE, BUT IT'S A PATHWAY.

IT OFTEN IS ROOTED IN EARLY CHILDHOOD TRAUMA.

THESE INDIVIDUALS THEN REACH A CRISIS POINT IN THEIR LIVES, AND IT'S USUALLY A SUICIDAL CRISIS BECAUSE A MASS SHOOTING IS INTENDED TO BE A FINAL ACT.

AND, SO, WHEN YOU GET TO THAT POINT IN YOUR LIFE, YOU'RE THEN STARTING TO STUDY OTHER MASS SHOOTERS BECAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING FOR VALIDATION FOR THE WAY YOU FEEL ABOUT YOURSELF AND ABOUT YOUR LIFE.

AND THEN IF YOU GET TO THAT POINT WHERE YOU FEEL LIKE THIS IS THE SOLUTION, IT'S GETTING ACCESS TO THAT FIREARM AND THAT'S THAT FINAL STAGE ON THE PATHWAY.

>> Cathy: YOU MENTIONED TRAUMA AS A YOUNG PERSON, BUT I WANT TO KNOW, I REMEMBER DOING INTERVIEWS, A NUMBER OF INTERVIEWS SEVERAL YEARS AGO, 20 YEARS AGO WITH AN EXPERT ON VIDEO GAMES, AND HOW WORRIED HE AS ABOUT HOW VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES WOULD PLAY OUT WITH YOUNG PEOPLE.

IS THERE ANY CORRELATION THERE AT ALL?

>> NO, NOT REALLY.

WE'VE STUDIED THIS.

IT'S ACTUALLY IN THE DATABASE.

AND WE HAVE TOOK A DEEP DIVE IN THIS.

WHAT WE FIND IS THINGS LIKE VIOLENT VIDEO GAMES, VIOLENT MOVIES, THEY MIGHT BE A FACILITATOR FOR SOMEBODY WHO'S GONE THROUGH SOME OF THAT PATHWAY, BUT FOR THE AVERAGE PERSON, IT'S REALLY NOT HAVING MUCH OF AN IMPACT AT ALL.

IF IT WAS, YOU KNOW, JAPAN, GREAT BRITAIN, OTHER COUNTRIES WOULD HAVE MASS SHOOTINGS AT THE RATES THAT WE DO BECAUSE THEY PLAY A LOT OF VIDEO GAMES TOO.

>> Cathy: IS THIS A MATTER, THEN, OF A LACK OF INTERVENTION?

>> TO SOME DEGREE, YES.

I THINK IN SOME WAYS, IT'S READY AND AVAILABLE ACCESS OF FIREARMS, WHICH IS A MAJOR CONTRIBUTING FACTOR HERE.

BUT IT'S ALSO THE ABSENCE OF A SOCIAL SAFETY NET.

AND I THINK IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE PANDEMIC OVER THE LAST FEW YEARS, IT'S KIND OF LAID THAT BARE FOR ALL OF US, WHICH IS THERE IS NOT REALLY THE SYSTEMS IN PLACE TO SPOT THOSE WARNING SIGNS WHEN THEY'RE RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF US.

AND THAT'S HE THING THAT THE RESEARCH IS TELLING US, WHICH IS MANY OF THESE MASS SHOOTERS ARE CRYING OUT FOR HELP.

AND SOMEBODY KNOWS SOMETHING ABOUT THAT PERSON, BUT THEY'RE PERHAPS NOT PUTTING THE PIECES OF THE PUZZLE TOGETHER TO BE ABLE TO INTERVENE EARLY AND STOP THEM MOVING DOWN THAT PATHWAY TO VIOLENCE.

>> Eric: THIS IS PORTRAYED AS MENTAL ILLNESS VERSUS GUN CONTROL, IS THERE SOME HADES OF GRAY IN THERE SOMEWHERE THAT COULD BE PUT TOGETHER?

>> YEAH, THAT'S SPEAKING MY LANGUAGE THERE.

THERE IS SHADES OF GRAY.

WE HAVE TO BE COMFORTABLE IN THE COMPLEXITY OF THIS.

EVERYBODY WANTS THE SOUND BITE ANSWER, IT'S ONE OR THE OTHER.

AND, INSTEAD, IT'S REALLY A CASE OF, CAN'T IT BE BOTH, AND IN FACT, NOT JUST BOTH BUT MORE.

AND THEN RECOGNIZING THAT ALL THOSE STAGES IN THE PATHWAY ARE OPPORTUNITIES FOR INTERVENTION AND THESE ARE INFLECTION POINTS, SO IF WE CAN SORT OF BE COMFORTABLE IN THAT COMPLEXITY, WE CAN REALLY MOVE FORWARD WITH MORE COMPREHENSIVE VIOLENCE PREVENTION AND INTERVENTION STRATEGIES.

>> Eric: AND YOU SAY THAT YOU HAVE DOCUMENTED CASES WHERE ELEMENTS OF A GUN CONTROL, SORT OF A HOLISTIC APPROACH TO THIS WOULD HAVE SAVED LIVES.

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY.

I MEAN, THIS IS THE OTHER THING, MANY OF THESE CASES, ALL OF THEM IN SOME WAYS, ARE PREVENTABLE, AND THAT'S THE THING ABOUT THIS, GUN VIOLENCE DOESN'T HAVE TO BE INEVITABLE.

IT IS PREVENTABLE.

AND, SO, THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO AS INDIVIDUALS RIGHT HERE RIGHT NOW TO PREVENT A MASS SHOOTING FROM OCCURRING.

SOMETHING AS SIMPLE AS SAFE STORAGE OF A FIREARM.

IF YOU HAVE A GUN AT HOME, KEEPING THAT AWAY FROM A TEENAGER COULD SAVE LIVES.

THERE'S THINGS WE HAVE TO DO AS INSTITUTIONS, IN OUR SCHOOLS, AND IN OUR WORKPLACES, TO SPOT THOSE WARNING SIGNS, GET PEOPLE THE HELP THEY NEED AND GET THEM OFF OF THAT PATHWAY TO VIOLENCE.

AND THEN THERE'S THINGS AS A SOCIETY, WE NEED TO DO, AND YOU OPENED THE SHOW, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE NEW BILL IN CONGRESS AND THE WORK THAT'S GOING ON THERE, THOSE ARE MEASURES IN THAT BILL THAT REALLY COULD SAVE LIVES, REALLY NEEDS THE SUPPORT TO GET IT ACROSS THE LINE.

>> Cathy: SO WHICH ONES ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

BECAUSE THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE NOT IN THE BILL THAT PEOPLE THINK SHOULD BE.

A RED FLAG LAW, YOU MENTIONED, THESE ARE FOLKS WHO ARE IN TRAUMA AND WHO ARE IN CRISIS, WOULD A RED FLAG LAW WORK?

>> YEAH, I BELIEVE SO.

THE EVIDENCE OF RED FLAGS LAWS IS USUALLY IN UICIDE PREVENTION, BUT WE SEE SUCH AN OVERLAP BETWEEN SUICIDE AND HOMICIDE IN THESE PARTICULAR CASES THAT I THINK A LOT OF THAT THEORY CAN BE APPLIED.

AND, SO, A RED FLAG LAW REALLY COULD SAVE LIVES.

IN FACT, IF YOU OOK AT THE DATA, WE'RE TALKING TENS OF MASS SHOOTINGS, WHICH COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED F SOMETHING LIKE THAT WAS IN EFFECT AND WAS BEING PROPERLY IMPLEMENTED.

>> Eric: WITH 400 MILLION ESTIMATED AWASH IN THE LAND, IS IT CONTROLLABLE?

>> YEAH.

THAT'S THE SCARY THING HERE, IS THAT WE HAVE MORE GUNS THAN PEOPLE.

AND, SO, THERE IS AN ELEMENT, IS THE GENIE ALREADY OUT OF THE BOTTLE, YOU KNOW?

AND I THINK IF WE TOOK THAT STANDPOINT, THOUGH, AND THEN SAID, AND, THEREFORE, WE CAN DO NOTHING, THEN IT'S ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE.

SO WE CONCLUDE, THE BOOK, THE VIOLENCE PROJECT, THE LAST CHAPTER, WE CALL IT "HOPE," AND WE GENUINELY, HAVING SPENT A LONG TIME IN THE DARKEST CORNERS OF THE INTERNET, SPENDING TIME IN THESE, YOU KNOW, CHAT ROOMS AND TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO PERPETRATED THESE CRIMES, WE CAME AWAY FROM IT HOPEFUL BECAUSE WE GENUINELY BELIEVED THIS CAN BE PREVENTED.

AND WE ACTUALLY HAVE ABOUT 30 PLUS SOLUTIONS IN THE END OF THE OOK ABOUT HOW WE CAN GO ABOUT SOLVING THIS PROBLEM.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE BILL THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING WRITTEN IN THE SENATE?

>> YEAH.

I THINK IT'S IMPERFECT, BUT IT'S A COMPROMISE, AND, SO, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT GO FURTHER.

I THINK THERE'S THINGS IN THERE MISSING, YOU KNOW, UNIVERSAL BACKGROUND CHECKS WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE, FOR EXAMPLE.

BUT THERE'S A LOT OF POSITIVES IN THERE.

AND IF THIS IS GOING TO BE THE FIRST FEDERAL GUN LEGISLATION IN 30 YEARS, THAT'S STILL SOMETHING TO BE CELEBRATED, ACTUALLY, THAT'S STILL A MAJOR MILESTONE, EVEN IF IT'S IMPERFECT.

>> Eric: WISH WE HAD MORE TIME.

THANKS, PROFESSOR, FOR COMING OVER.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> MY PLEASURE.

♪♪ >> CATHY: IN ATLANTA THIS WEEK A GROUP OF ELECTED OFFICIALS, ACTIVISTS AND CIVIC LEADERS MET FOR WHAT WAS BILLED AS A "BIG IDEAS SUMMIT."

IT WAS ORGANIZED BY THE PROGRESSIVE ADVOCACY GROUP "PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY."

POLICING IN AMERICA WAS ON THE AGENDA AS THE BIG TOPIC.

THE GROUP RELEASED A REPORT TODAY CALLED "ALL SAFE: TRANSFORMING PUBLIC SAFETY."

WE'RE JOINED NOW BY TWO PEOPLE TO TALK ABOUT ITS RECOMMENDATIONS.

MIKE ELLIOT IS THE MAYOR OF BROOKLYN CENTER WHO WAS THRUST INTO THE NATIONAL SPOTLIGHT LAST YEAR AFTER THE SHOOTING DEATH OF DAUNTE WRIGHT IN HIS CITY.

HERE TOO, DR. NIAZ KASRAVI IS THE AUTHOR OF THE "ALL SAFE" REPORT.

SHE IS A NATIONAL EXPERT ON POLICING AND CRIMINAL JUSTICE.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: DOCTOR, I'M GOING TO START WITH YOU, YOU TALK IN THE REPORT ABOUT FOUR PILLARS OF ACTION.

ONE OF THEM IS RESTRUCTURING PUBLIC SAFETY, BUT WHAT DOES THAT MEAN EXACTLY?

>> SURE.

SO, THAT IS THE KEY PILLAR OF THE FOUR SETS OF RECOMMENDATIONS THAT WE MAKE IN HIS REPORT.

AND IT'S THE IDEAL, IN OUR VIEW, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT THE CITY OF ITHACA, IN NEW YORK, IS DOING, SO WE CALL IT THE ITHACA PUBLIC SAFETY MODEL, WHICH BASICALLY REPLACES A TRADITIONAL POLICE FORCE WITH A DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY THAT IS STAFFED BY CO-EQUAL TEAMS OF ARMED RESPONDERS AND UNARMED RESPONDERS AND IT'S CIVILIAN LED.

SO THE DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY IS HEADED BY A CIVILIAN WITH TWO CO-EQUAL FORCES THAT ARE EACH TRAINED TO DEAL WITH SPECIFIC SETS OF SITUATIONS, THOSE THAT REQUIRE AN ARMED RESPONSE BY POLICE OFFICERS AND THOSE THAT CAN BE SAFELY HANDLED BY UNARMED RESPONDERS WHO HAVE EXPERTISE IN MENTAL HEALTHCARE, SOCIAL SERVICES, AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

AND SO THAT IS THE ENTERPIECE OF OUR RECOMMENDATIONS IN THIS REPORT.

>> Eric: YOU'RE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THAT INFORMATION FROM YOUR REACTION TO THE SHOOTING THERE IN BROOKLYN CENTER.

HOW'S IT GOING IN YOUR COMMUNITY?

>> YOU KNOW, WE'RE DOING THE WORK.

AND, YOU KNOW, THE FIRST TEP WAS TO PASS THIS TRANSFORMATIVE PUBLIC SAFETY RESOLUTION, AND AT THE CENTER OF IT REALLY IS RESTRUCTURING OUR PUBLIC SAFETY SYSTEM, RIGHT?

AND WE DO HAVE -- CONTINUE TO HAVE POLICE RESPONSE WHERE IT'S NEEDED.

BUT NOW WE ARE PUTTING TOGETHER OUR COMMUNITY RESPONSE TEAM MADE UP OF MENTAL HEALTH WORKERS, SOCIAL WORKERS, PARAMEDICS, CONFLICT RESOLUTION FOLKS, PEOPLE WHO CAN ARRIVE AT A SCENE AND HELP TAKE CARE OF THE PEOPLE IN WAYS THAT SOMEBODY WITH A BADGE AND A GUN JUST DOESN'T HAVE THAT BACKGROUND CAN DO.

AND THAT WORK IS BEING LED BY L.E.A.P., LAW ENFORCEMENT ACTION PARTNERSHIP, WHICH, HAS RETIRED POLICE CHIEFS AND OTHER LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL.

THEY'RE HELPING TO ADVISE US AS WE RESTRUCTURE OUR PUBLIC SAFETY SYSTEM, AND THAT WORK IS GOING WELL.

IT'S BEING DONE BY OUR COMMUNITY MEMBERS, RIGHT.

THERE ARE 11 TOTAL COMMUNITY MEMBERS ON THIS IMPLEMENTATION COMMITTEE, AND THE MOTHERS OF COLBY HASSER WILL AND DAUNTE WRIGHT BOTH ARE CHAIRS OF THE TWO WORKGROUPS THAT ARE LEADING THE POLICY WORK AND THE COMMUNITY RESPONSE WORK.

SO IT'S INCREDIBLE WHAT WE'RE DOING IN BROOKLYN CENTER.

>> Cathy: DOCTOR, I WANT TO GO BACK TO WHAT YOU SAID, THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT THESE REIMAGINED DEPARTMENTS BEING CITIZEN LED, CIVILIAN LED.

WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

>> I HINK IT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE PART OF THE PROBLEM OF A SYSTEM OF POLICING IN OUR COUNTRY HAS BEEN A CULTURE OF POLICING THAT HAS BEEN BUILT THROUGH THE YEARS, AND WE NEED TO HAVE SOMEONE WHO HAS EXPERTISE, NOT ONLY IN UNDERSTANDING POLICING, THE LAWS THAT GOVERN POLICING, BUT HAS AN UNDERSTANDING OF RACIAL JUSTICE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE AND OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THE COMMUNITY BECAUSE WE NEED TO BRING THAT LEVEL OF UNDERSTANDING AND THAT COMPLEXITY OF THE NATURE OF PUBLIC SAFETY TO THE HEAD OF THESE DEPARTMENTS.

>> Eric: MAYOR.

>> AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE DOING IN BROOKLYN CENTER AS WELL.

SO WE HAVE A DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY HEAD THAT HAS TO HAVE A PUBLIC HEALTH BACKGROUND, RIGHT.

AND THAT'S A STUDY IN UNDERSTANDING THE INTERSECTION OF -- THE IMPORTANCE OF EDUCATION, HOUSING, FOOD SECURITY, ALL THESE ISSUES COME TOGETHER TO REALLY CREATE A SAFER COMMUNITY.

SO THAT PERSON IS HEADING OUR PUBLIC SAFETY OVERALL SYSTEM HAS THAT BACKGROUND.

>> Eric: DOCTOR, HOW DO YOU RECRUIT THE TYPE OF LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER THAT YOU WOULD ENVISION WOULD BE FAIR AND PROTECTING AND SERVING WHEN MANY OF THE FOLKS COME TO THIS WITH KIND OF A WARRIOR MENTALITY?

>> SURE.

THERE ARE MANY RECOMMENDATIONS THAT CAN BE FOUND IN THE REPORT THAT ARE PRETTY LOGICAL WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT -- WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT RECRUITING MATERIALS IN THE MAJOR CITIES, AND MOST CITIES FOR POLICE DEPARTMENTS, YOU SEE IMAGES OF, LIKE, MILITARIZED POLICE DEPARTMENTS, THESE AGGRESSIVE IMAGES THAT REALLY PORTRAY A MORE VIOLENT MENTALITY RATHER THAN A COMMUNITY-CENTERED MENTALITY.

IT'S VERY IMPORTANT TO PORTRAY THE RIGHT IMAGE WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO RECRUIT THE RIGHT TYPE OF PERSONNEL FOR PUBLIC SAFETY.

IT'S IMPORTANT AS THE MAYOR SAID, TO OFFER THINGS LIKE EDUCATIONAL INCENTIVES.

STUDIES HAVE SHOWN, ALTHOUGH IT'S NOT ALWAYS THE CASE SITUATION, BUT STUDIES HAVE SHOWN THAT HIGHER EDUCATIONAL INCENTIVES, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE OFFERING THOSE, YOU'RE ABLE TO GET CANDIDATES WHO ARE LESS PRONE TO VIOLENCE AND MORE PRONE TO DOING THE RIGHT THING ON THE JOB.

THERE ARE ALL SORTS OF SCREENINGS AND EVALUATIONS, PSYCHOLOGICAL SCREENINGS THAT CAN BE DONE, NOT ONLY JUST FOR RACIAL BIAS BUT FOR THINGS LIKE AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR AND THINGS LIKE THAT THAT HAVE TO BE A PART OF RECRUITMENT TO GET THE RIGHT POLICE OFFICERS AND PUBLIC SAFETY PERSONNEL IN YOUR DEPARTMENT.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, AFTER THE DEATH OF DAUNTE WRIGHT, I KNOW YOU'RE DOWN SEVERAL OFFICERS IN YOUR DEPARTMENT RIGHT NOW, HOW'S RECRUITING GOING?

>> IT'S VERY TOUGH.

AND IT'S DOWN IN ALL THE CITIES AROUND BROOKLYN CENTER AS WELL AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

WE HAVE RIGHT NOW VACANCY OF TEN POLICE OFFICERS.

AND, YOU KNOW, OTHERS -- I THINK GOLDEN VALLEY IS PROBABLY DOWN THE SAME NUMBER, MAYBE EVEN MORE, AND THEY HAVE AN EVEN SMALLER DEPARTMENT.

SO IT'S A TOUGH TIME RIGHT NOW TO RECRUIT POLICE OFFICERS.

>> Eric: THAT INEVITABLE, DOCTOR, THAT INEVITABLE, SOME SAY THAT THE NONENFORCEMENT OF THE LOW-LEVEL MISDEMEANORS IS CAUSING QUALITY-OF-LIFE PROBLEMS IN CITIES AND WE SAW SOME EVIDENCE OF THAT IN SAN FRANCISCO ELECTION RECENTLY.

WHAT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF LIFE AND THESE LOW-LEVEL MISDEMEANORS?

>> I THINK IT'S A VALID CONCERN AND A VALID QUESTION.

THE DATA, IF YOU LOOK AT IT ACROSS THE COUNTRY, JUST DOESN'T PROVE THAT.

VIOLENT CRIMES AND CRIMES ARE ON THE UPTICK ACROSS THE COUNTRY, IN CITIES, WHETHER THEY HAVE REFORMED THEIR POLICE DEPARTMENTS AND RESTRUCTURED IT OR IN PLACES LIKE SACREMENTO WHO HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TOUGH ON CRIME AND LAW AND ORDER TYPE OFFICIALS IN PLACE WHERE THEY ALSO HAVE SEEN AN UPTICK IN CRIME.

SO I THINK TO MAKE THAT CONNECTION HAT WE'RE SEEING A RISE IN VIOLENT CRIME BECAUSE WE ARE NOT ENFORCING AND BECAUSE WE'RE DECRIMINALIZING VICTIMLESS CRIMES AND THINGS LIKE THAT IS JUST A ALSE NARRATIVE THAT THE DATA JUST DOESN'T BACK UP.

AND I THINK WE OWE IT TO OUR COMMUNITIES TO REALLY TAKE A BETTER LOOK AT WHAT WORKS RATHER THAN GOING WITH OUR EMOTIONS AND FEARS.

>> Cathy: MAYOR, ONE OF THE PILLARS ALSO IS HOLDING OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE.

HOW IS THAT WORKING IN YOUR CITY?

GIVEN WHAT HAS JUST -- WHAT HAS JUST TRANSPIRED.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT OF OUR LAW ENFORCEMENT OF SYSTEM, RIGHT.

AND, SO, PART OF THE RESOLUTION IS TO ESTABLISH A COMMUNITY OVERSIGHT BOARD OF THE POLICE.

WE DON'T HAVE THAT UP YET.

THAT'S PART OF THE IMPLEMENTATION COMMITTEE'S WORK, AND THAT COMMITTEE IS STILL WORKING HROUGH SETTING UP THE GUIDELINES FOR THAT OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE.

AND HOPEFULLY WE'LL HAVE THAT UP BY THE END OF THE YEAR.

>> Eric: END OF THE YEAR.

>> YEAH.

>> Eric: THIS IS A CONTINUING STORY WITH A LOT OF LAYERS AND WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOU BOTH ADDING TO THE CONVERSATION TONIGHT.

THANKS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU SO MUCH.

♪♪ >> ERIC: THIS SUMMER KAOMI LEE HAS BEEN TRAVELING THE STATE SEEKING OUT GREAT PIECES OF ARCHITECTURE, AND HER STORY THIS WEEK STARTS OFF WITH A QUESTION.

WHAT DOES JESSICA LANGE AND AN ARCHITECTURALLY SIGNIFICANT GAS STATION HAVE IN COMMON?

THEY ARE BOTH FROM CLOQUET.

AND THE GAS STATION, AT LEAST, IS STILL THERE.

RECENTLY KAOMI VISITED THE BEST SERVICE STATION, DESIGNED BY FAMED ARCHITECT FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT.

>> HIGHWAY 33 IN CLOQUET IS A POPULAR GATEWAY TO MINNESOTA'S NORTHERN WILDERNESS.

IT'S ALSO A MUST STOP FOR FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT ENTHUSIASTS.

SINCE 1958, THERE'S BEEN GAS STATION HERE DESIGNED BY THE FAMED ARCHITECT.

WHAT DO PEOPLE THINK OF THIS FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT GAS STATION?

>> WELL, PEOPLE ARE AMAZED BY IT.

ACTUALLY, I TELL PEOPLE, CLOQUET, THAT'S THE PLACE WITH THE FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT GAS STATION.

SO IT'S UNIQUE.

>> CHARTIER HAS BEEN RUNNING THE FULL-SERVICE GAS TATION AND REPAIR SHOP SINCE HE WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL.

>> TELL US WHERE HAVE TOURISTS COME FROM?

ALL OVER THE WORLD?

>> OH, ALL OVER THE WORLD, YEAH, HONESTLY.

PEOPLE FROM CHINA OUT HERE BUYING GAS.

AND THEY SET UP EASELS AND DO PICTURES.

ALWAYS DAZZLE ME THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE THAT COME TO LOOK AT THIS PLACE.

I THINK A LOT OF PEOPLE PROBABLY SEE THIS AND SCRATCH THEIR HEAD AND WONDER, A FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT GAS STATION?

WHY WAS FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT THE UNDOUBTEDLY MOST FAMOUS ARCHITECT OF THE 20th CENTURY, WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR, YOU KNOW, SUCH IMPORTANT THINGS AS THE GUGGENHEIM MUSEUM IN NEW YORK CITY AND FALLING WATER IN BEAR RUN, PENNSYLVANIA, WHAT'S HE DOING MESSING AROUND WITH A GAS STATION?

>> IN 1950, R.W.

LINDHOLM, A LOCAL OIL BUSINESSMAN TAPPED WRIGHT TO BUILD HIS HOME IN CLOQUET.

WHEN HE NEEDED TO PGRADE HIS GAS STATION, HE AGAIN WENT TO WRIGHT.

>> WAS IT A COINCIDENCE THAT WRIGHT HAD BEEN THINKING ABOUT GAS STATIONS ALL THESE YEARS.

>> FAMOUSLY KNOWN FOR THE PRAIRIE SCHOOL DESIGN PHILOSOPHY, WRIGHT LATER TURNED HIS ATTENTION TO LAND USE PLANNING.

>> IN 1932, HE PUBLISHED A BOOK ENTITLED "THE DISAPPEARING CITY," AND THAT'S AN ASPIRATIONAL TITLE FOR HIM.

HE THOUGHT THE CITIES SHOULD GO AWAY.

>> INSTEAD HE CAME UP WITH A REPLICA MODEL.

THE IDEA WAS TO HAVE SEMI AGRARIAN COMMUNITIES ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

CARS WERE NEEDED AND SO WERE GAS STATIONS.

AND WRIGHT HOUGHT HE KNEW HOW TO DESIGN THE BEST ONE.

>> THIS IS THE CUSTOMER LOUNGE, AND THE IDEA WAS THAT CUSTOMERS WOULD SIT UP HERE AND WHILE THEIR TIME AWAY WAITING FOR THEIR CARS TO BE REPAIRED.

HIS BIG IDEA WAS THAT THIS ROOM WOULD BECOME A CIVICS CENTER OF SORTS.

THERE WOULD BE SEVERAL PEOPLE SITTING AROUND HERE, PERHAPS, WAITING FOR THEIR CARS.

AND THEY WOULD DISCUSS THE ISSUES OF THE DAY.

SO THIS LITTLE ROOM IS WHERE THE DETAILS OF DEMOCRACY OULD BE WORKED OUT IN FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT'S, YOU KNOW, BRAIN.

>> WITH ONLY THE SKY IS YOUR LIMIT, IDEAS WERE TO BE HASHED OUT UNDER THIS MASSIVE 32-FOOT CANTILEVER COPPER ROOF.

IT'S ANCHORED BY HEAVY STEEL WITH CONCRETE BLOCKS AT THE REAR.

THE BUILDING IS 62 FEET TALL.

THERE'S ALSO PHILIPPINE MAHOGANY IN THE RESTROOMS, A CRISS-CROSS CORN US, SKYLIGHTS IN THE AUTO BAYS, THE ARCHITECT'S SIGNATURE STAMP AND THAT ISTINCTIVE FONT.

>> RAY LINDHOLM REALLY MADE A BIG INVESTMENT HERE AND FELT THAT THIS WAS GOING TO ATTRACT A LOT OF PEOPLE, PEOPLE WOULD WANT TO BUY GAS FROM HIM.

>> IT COST 75,000 DOLLARS, ABOUT THREE TO FOUR TIMES MORE THAN THE AVERAGE GAS STATION, WHEN LINDHOLM'S HEIRS DECIDED TO SELL, THE BUILDING WAS A KIND OF WHITE ELEPHANT.

IN THE END, IT WOULD GO TO ONLY A PARTICULAR KIND OF BUYER.

>> SO WE'VE GOT THE OLD AND THE NEW.

WE DO A LOT F THE -- A LOT OF THE VINYL IS REISSUES.

I HAVE A B.A.

IN HISTORY FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA, RIGHT.

SO I HAVE A -- SO I AM A BIT OF A HISTORY BUFF.

>> THE COMPANY MAKES VINYL RECORDS FOR THE MUSIC INDUSTRY BUT THE 53-YEAR-OLD FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT FAN HAD BEEN STOPPING BY THE STATION ANNUALLY FOR YEARS.

>> I ALWAYS MAKE A POINT HEN I VISIT A NEW CITY, TO FIND OUT IF THERE'S SOME INTERESTING BUILDING THERE, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S A WAY TO ENHANCE THE ROAD TRIP.

DURING WHICH TIME I MET THE FAMILY WHO OWNED IT.

THE GRANDSONS OF THE MAN WHO BUILT IT, R.W.

LINDHOLM, SO WE KNEW EACH THER, THEY KNEW I WAS INTERESTED IN THE BUILDING.

>> IN 2018, HE CLOSED THE DEAL FOR $325,000.

IT INCLUDED LETTING CHARTIER CONTINUE ON AS A TENANT.

IT ALSO CAME WITH DOZENS OF ORIGINAL DOCUMENTS.

HE OPENS THEM FOR THE FIRST TIME ON OUR VISIT.

>> YEAH, I GUESS IT'S -- >> ORIGINAL?

>> EAH, GUESS.

>> HE SAYS HE DIDN'T BUY IT TO MAKE MONEY.

HE'S NOW PART OF A SMALL CLUB OF FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BUILDING OWNERS.

>> THE GAS STATION BRINGS ME JOY.

I LIKE SITTING AROUND JUST THINKING ABOUT IT.

OR KNOWING THAT I OWN IT.

BECAUSE I'M A COLLECTOR.

>> AND WOULD FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT BE PLEASED WITH HIS GAS STATION TODAY?

>> I THINK HE WOULD STILL BE VERY PROUD OF IT.

I THINK HE WOULD SEE THAT IT STILL WORKS IN MANY WAYS.

IT'S HIS DREAM FOR AMERICA.

IS SYMBOLIZED, IN HIS MIND, BY THIS GAS STATION.

♪♪ >> GAS PRICES ARE BANANAS.

I WENT TO RE-FUEL MY CAR THE OTHER DAY, AND EVEN WITH EVERY COUPON AND EVERY DISCOUNT I COULD SCROUNGE UP, THE COST WAS, WELL, PUT IT THIS WAY: I'’VE PAID LESS FOR A NICE DINNER OUT.

AND SOLUTIONS ARE HARD TO COME BY: WE CAN'’T JUST ALL GO OUT AND BUY AN ELECTRIC CAR.

SOME OF US DON'’T LIVE CLOSE TO RELIABLE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION.

AND THOUGH PLENTY OF FOLKS STILL WORK FROM HOME, THE DAILY COMMUTE IS INCHING ITS WAY BACK.

BUT I'’VE DEVELOPED A WAY TO BEAT THE SYSTEM.

INSTEAD OF WAITING TILL THE GAUGE IS ON "“E,"” I HEAD FOR THE GAS STATION WHEN I STILL HAVE HALF A TANK.

THIS WAY, I SAVE MYSELF 50% ON A FILL-UP.

YEP, WHILE THE REST OF YOU SUCKERS ARE SHELLING OUT 70, 80, MAYBE A HUNDRED BUCKS, I'’M PAYING, LIKE 35 OR $40.

I KNOW WHAT YOU'’RE THINKING.

BUT, DOMINIC, AREN'’T YOU JUST DIVIDING THE MISERY BY TWO?

WELL, THAT'’S WHAT LAME-STREAM MATHEMATICS WOULD HAVE YOU BELIEVE.

BUT I'’VE DONE MY OWN RESEARCH ON THIS.

PAYING FOR HALF OF SOMETHING COSTS LESS THAN PAYING FOR ALL OF SOMETHING.

IT'’S OBVIOUS.

A CHILD COULD FIGURE IT OUT.

THE TROUBLE IS, PEOPLE AREN'’T WILLING TO THINK FOR THEMSELVES ON THINGS LIKE THIS.

THEY'’D RATHER JUST BLITHELY ACCEPT $5-A-GALLON GAS -- IF IT REALLY *IS * $5 A GALLON.

AND IF IT REALLY IS?

GASOLINE.

I MEAN, EXCEPT FOR A FEW DRIPS AT THE END - WHICH COULD EASILY BE FAKED - I'’VE NEVER ACTUALLY SEEN THE "“GASOLINE"” GO INTO MY "“TANK.

"” I'’M NOT SAYING THIS IS A CONSPIRACY COOKED UP BY BIG OIL AND THE AUTOMAKERS TO GRAB OUR HARD-EARNED MONEY.

BUT I'’M NOT SAYING IT ISN'’T, EITHER.

♪ JAZZ MUSIC ♪ >> JEARLYN: THE TWIN CITIES JAZZ FESTIVAL IS NEXT WEEKEND, AND WE THOUGHT WE'D GET A HEAD START ON IT.

AS IN PAST YEARS, MUCH OF THE ACTIVITY WILL BE NEAR US IN LOWERTOWN ST. PAUL, BUT VENUES WILL STRETCH ACROSS THE CITIES.

STEVE HECKLER IS THE FOUNDER OF JAZZ FEST AND IS HERE TO TELL US MORE.

HEY, STEVE.

>> HEY.

HOW YOU DOING?

>> Jearlyn: I'M GREAT.

HERE'S THE THING.

24 YEARS.

>> YES.

>> Jearlyn: 24th YEAR.

>> CAN YOU BELIEVE IT?

24th YEAR.

>> Jearlyn: WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN IT'S 40?

>> I DON'T KNOW.

I'LL BE WHEELED N THERE, I GUESS.

>> Jearlyn: RIGHT.

IT USED TO BE ONLY IN LOWERTOWN ALL OF THE EVENTS BUT NOW YOU HAVE TENTACLES AND YOU'RE MOVING OUT FURTHER.

>> WE'RE BASICALLY ALL OVER St. PAUL, WHICH IS AMAZING.

WE HAVE SO MANY VENUES THAT HAVE JUMPED ON BOARD O HOST FREE JAZZ AND LIVE JAZZ.

AND WE ACTUALLY, WE WORK WITH RECRUITERS -- WE WORK WITH CROONERS, DAKOTA, THEY WILL HAVE MUSIC AS WELL.

IT'S A WALKING EVENT IN DOWNTOWN St. PAUL, IT'S TRULY AN EVENT YOU CAN GO TO STAGE TO STAGE, ENJOY REAT MUSIC, GREAT JAZZ.

>> Jearlyn: I'VE BEEN OUT IN MARRIES PARK, IT'S SUCH A BLAST.

MEARS.

IT'S FREE OF CHARGE.

>> YES.

IT'S TRULY A CIVIC EVENT, WE WANT PEOPLE TO EXPERIENCE JAZZ, EXPERIENCE THE ART, AND ANYONE WITH ANY MEANS, ANY INCOME CAN ENJOY MUSIC.

AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.

COME DOWN -- [ HUMMING ] >> GOOD JAZZ IS STILL AT YOUR HOUSE, TOO.

WHAT REALLY HELPS, WE HAVE SOME GREAT MUSICIANS IN THIS COMMUNITY.

>> Jearlyn: YEAH, WE DO.

>> BIG SHOUT-OUT TO ALL THESE MUSICIANS THAT ARE OUT THERE.

THANK YOU FOR PRACTICING, STICKING IT OUT FOR THE LAST COUPLE YEARS, IT'S BEEN TOUGH, MAN HAVE STUCK -- YOU KNOW, STUCK IT OUT, PRACTICED, KEPT IT GOING, THAT'S HOW WE'RE ABLE TO DO A FESTIVAL.

>> Jearlyn: TELL US, GIVE US SOME OF THE HIGHLIGHTS.

>> FIRST OF ALL, IT'S A FREE EVENT.

COME DOWNTOWN, MEARS PARK, WE HAVE MATTHEW WHITAKER COMING IN, 60 MINUTES A FEW TIME, A YOUNG BLIND MAN WHO IS ONE OF THE BETTER B3 PLAYERS, EMMA COHEN IS COMING IN.

WE DECIDED TO HAVE SOME FUN THIS YEAR, TREMAY BRASS BAND IN NEW ORLEANS, PLAYING SOME TRADITIONAL JAZZ.

STRICKLE IS COMING IN WITH BRANDON GOLDBERG, FANTASTIC PLAY.

WE HAVE 300 MINNESOTA MUSICIANS COMING IN.

>> Jearlyn: THE BACK STAGE IS PRETTY SMALL, WHERE DO YOU PUT US ALL?

NO, REALLY.

>> THE VENUES, THE VENUES HAVE STEPPED UP AROUND THE CITY AND WE'RE ABLE TO PUT MUSICIANS INTO THESE VENUES.

THANK YOU TO ALL THE VENUES DOWNTOWN St. PAUL.

AND THAT'S WHERE THEY'RE PLAYING.

AGAIN, COME DOWN TO MARRIES PARK -- MEARS PARK.

GREAT BEER, GREAT WINE, SHOUT-OUT TO SUMMIT.

PEOPLE LIKE AARP, JAZZ 88, GREAT STATION, XCEL, JUST BEING ABLE TO HELP SUPPORT US, BETWEEN THAT AND DONATIONS AND GRANTS AND THAT'S HOW WE'RE ABLE TO DO THIS SORT OF THING.

>> Jearlyn: IT'S REMARKABLE.

WE ALL LOVE IT.

EVERYONE'S LOOKING FORWARD TO IT THAT I KNOW.

YOU BROUGHT SOMEONE WITH YOU TO SING, RIGHT?

>> I DID.

SPEAKING OF GREAT MUSICIANS THAT HAVE DONE WELL, WE HAVE MAUDE HIX SON.

I THINK WE'VE KNOWN EACH OTHER, LIKE, I DON'T KNOW, 25, 30 YEARS.

>> Jearlyn: SHE'S WONDERFUL.

>> AMAZING.

OF COURSE, RICK CARSON, OVER HERE, WHO HAVE BEEN WITH THE WOLVERINES.

>> WE HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER SOMETIME.

>> YOU SHOULD WORK TOGETHER.

>> Jearlyn: IT'S BEEN WONDERFUL.

CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR 24th YEAR.

AND I CANNOT WAIT TO TALK TO YOU FOR THE 25th.

>> GREAT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> Jearlyn: ALL RIGHT.

SO PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO SING TONIGHT.

>> THANK YOU, JEARLYN.

WE HAVE A BOBBY TROUPE SONG CALLED "LEMON TWIST."

♪ HERE'S A WORD TO THE WISE, THE TOP DIETITIANS IN TOWN INSIST ♪ ♪ THE BEST SOURCE OF VITAMIN C THERE CAN BE IS A LEMON TWIST ♪ EVEN A CONCEPTIC REPLIES -- CONCEPTIC REPLACE THAT THERE'S A SUGGESTION YOU CAN'T RESIST A COOL DRINK WITH ICE IS IMPROVED WITH SOME SLICES OF LEMON TWIST ♪ ♪ IT ISN'T MERELY CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT THE LEMON IS A HIGHLY HEALTHFUL CITRUS FRUIT ♪ ♪ THE MOST RESPECTED SCIENTISTS AGREE WITH THE PHYSIOLOGISTS AND HERE'S ONE FACT, YOU CAN'T DISPUTE ♪ ♪ WHY DON'T YOU OPEN YOUR EYES, YOUR PSYCHOSOMATIC SKILLS WON'T PERSIST IF QUICK LIKE A RABBIT YOU LATCH THE HABIT OF LEMON TWIST ♪ ♪ INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC ♪ ♪ IT ISN'T REALLY CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE THAT THE LEMON IS A HIGHLY HEALTHFUL CITRUS FRUIT ♪ ♪ THE MOST-RESPECTED SCIENTISTS AGREE WITH THE PHYSIOLOGISTS AND ERE'S ONE FACT YOU CAN'T DISPUTE ♪ ♪ WHY DON'T YOU OPEN YOUR EYES, YOUR PSYCHOSOMATIC ILLS WON'T PERSIST ♪ ♪ IF QUICK LIKE A RABBIT, YOU LATCH TO THE HABIT OF LEMON TWIST ♪ ♪ IF QUICK LIKE A RABBIT YOU LATCH TO THE HABIT OF ♪ ♪ LEMON TWIST ♪ [ Applause ] ♪♪ >> Cathy: SHE IS FANTASTIC.

THIS WEEK A TWIN CITIES ESTABLISHMENT WAS NAMED THE BEST NEW RESTAURANT IN THE NATION.

OWMANI WON THE PRESTIGIOUS JAMES BEARD FOUNDATION AWARD FOR ITS EXCELLENCE FEATURING INDIGENOUS FOOD.

OWAMNI CHEF SEAN SHERMAN AND PARTNER DANA THOMPSON WERE FEATURED IN A PBS "NEWSHOUR" SEGMENT BACK IN 2019.

THEY EXPLAINED THEIR APPROACH TO FOOD TO "NEWSHOUR" REPORTER FRED DE SAM LAZARO.

HERE'S A SECOND LOOK AT PART OF THAT STORY.

>> FRESH FOODS AND PRODUCE ARE SCARCE ON RESERVATIONS, PARTICULARLY RURAL ONES, WHERE MANY PEOPLE RELY ON CONVENIENCE STORES FOR THEIR GROCERIES.

SHERMAN AND THOMPSON WANT TO TACKLE THE CHALLENGE OF THESE SO-CALLED FOOD DESERTS.

>> EVEN IF WE COULD JUST GET SOME OF THOSE GAS STATIONS TO JUST HAVE ONE SECTION, ONE SHELF OF HEALTHY INDIGENOUS OPTIONS TO CHOOSE FROM, YOU KNOW, TAKE AWAY ONE BIG SHELF OF CHIPS, RIGHT.

>> ISN'T IT TRUE THAT THOSE CHIPS WOULD BE A LOT CHEAPER THAN THE HEALTHIER OPTIONS THAT MIGHT REPLACE THEM?

>> IT'S CHEAPER ON THE FRONT END.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE COST OF TREATING ALL OF THOSE FOOD-BORNE ILLNESSES, IT WIPES THAT PRICE OF THE CHIPS RIGHT OUT.

>> THERE IS A CHEAPER OPTION, THEY SAY.

FORAGING.

>> PEOPLE CAN JUST GO INTO THEIR BACKYARD.

>> E TAG ALONG AT AN ORGANIC FARM AND GARDEN RUN BY THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX TRIBE NEAR MINNEAPOLIS, AS THEY PICK BERRIS, WILD HERBS, GREENS.

>> WE HAVE SOME CEDAR, WE HAVE SOME HISS SOP AND SOME BERGAMOT.

>> BACK IN A KITCHEN IN St. PAUL, THEY WHIP UP A DELICIOUS DISH WITH THE INIMREENTS THEY GATHERED, PLUS LIKE A FEW STAPLES LIKE WILD RICE.

>> IT'S LIKE AUTUMN N A PLATE.

INGREDIENTS.

>> THAT IS UNLIKE ANYTHING I HAVE EVER TASTED IN MY LIFE.

>> YEAH.

YOU KNOW, LIKE AROUND HERE, YOU CAN'T GET MORE MINNESOTAN THAN THOSE FOODS BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN HERE LONGER THAN MINNESOTA WAS A CONCEPT.

♪♪ >> CATHY: THE TWINS ARE WINNING BUT HURTING.

THE VIKINGS ARE HOPING AND PREPARING.

AND THE LYNX ARE HUSTLING BUT LOSING.

MEANWHILE, THE MEN'S PROFESSIONAL GOLF WORLD IS IN TUMULT.

IT'S A GOOD TIME TO CHECK IN WITH LARRY FITZGERALD SR.

HE'S A VETERAN SPORTSCASTER WHO DOES RADIO WORK FOR THE NATIONAL PROGRAMMING NETWORK.

SO, FITZY, THE WARRIORS WON THE NBA CHAMPIONSHIP THIS WEEK.

HOW FAR AWAY ARE THE WOLVES FROM DOING SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> WELL, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE THE TIMBERWOLVES HAVE CONTRIBUTED TO JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY WINNING A CHAMPIONSHIP VER THE LAST, SAY, 20 YEARS.

REMEMBER, THEY HAD KEVIN LOVE AND THEN THEY TRADED HIM TO CLEVELAND AND THEN CLEVELAND WON THEIR FIRST CHAMPIONSHIP IN 50 YEARS.

THEY GOT ANDREW WIGGINS IN EXCHANGE.

HE WAS THE FIRST OVERALL PICK.

>> Eric: YEAH.

>> AND THEY HAD CHAUNCEY BILLUPS, THEY TRADED HIM TO DETROIT, THEY WON A CHAMPIONSHIP, GOT THE TWO FINALS.

AND THEN IF THAT WASN'T GOOD ENOUGH, THEY HAD KEVIN GARNETT, MVP HERE, AND THEY TRADED HIM TO BOSTON AND THEY WON THEIR 17th CHAMPIONSHIP.

AND IF YOU SAW LAST NIGHT, ANDREW WIGGINS, THE SECOND-BEST PLAYER ON A WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM, HELPED THEM WIN A TITLE.

SO THAT'S FOUR PLAYERS, NO WONDER THEY JUST HIRED A NEW VICE PRESIDENT OF BASKETBALL OPERATIONS.

GAVE THEM PART OF THE TEAM, PAID HIM $40 MILLION BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE A CLUE DOWN THERE.

>> Cathy: WOW.

>> Eric: TWINS ARE IN FIRST PLACE.

ARE THEY GOOD OR JUST LUCKY TO BE IN A CRAPPY DIVISION?

>> I THINK THEY'RE GOOD.

I THINK THE DIVISION IS COMING ALONG.

CLEVELAND'S PLAYING PRETTY GOOD.

THEY'VE WON 14 OUT OF 18.

THEY'RE ONLY TWO GAMES BACK.

THE WHITE SOX HAVE BEEN AN ABSOLUTE MESS WITH INJURIES.

>> Eric: THEY WANT LARUSSO GONE.

>> THEY'RE SCREAMING.

BUT THEY'RE PLAYING THE TWINS IN CHICAGO ON THE FOURTH OF JULY, THE 4th, 5th AND 6th.

I WAS THINKING ABOUT GOING IN THERE FOR THE THREE-GAME SERIES IF IT MEANS SOMETHING.

BUT RIGHT NOW IT WOULDN'T MEAN ANYTHING.

THE TWINS ARE IN ARIZONA THIS WEEKEND.

WHERE IT'S 110°.

>> Cathy: I KNOW.

IT'S GOING TO ET HOT HERE, TOO, THOUGH, FITZY.

YES.

SAY, WHAT ABOUT THE LYNX?

I FEEL BAD, THEY'RE KIND OF STRUGGLING.

>> YOU KNOW, CHERYL REEVE, GENERAL MANAGER AND COACH, SHE JUST LOST SYLVIA FOWLES WITH A KNEE INJURY.

I DON'T KNOW WHETHER SHE'S GOING TO COME BACK OR NOT.

SHE'S A HALL OF FAMER TO BE.

BUT SHE'S PUTTING THIS TEAM TOGETHER.

I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE NATIONALLY TELEVISED GAME AGAINST SEATTLE, WHO'S WON A CHAMPIONSHIP REASONABLE.

THEY PLAYED THEM RIGHT DOWN TO THE WIRE.

RECENTLY.

THEY LOST BY A BUCKET.

SO I THINK THEY'RE GOING TO BE BETTER TOWARDS THE END OF THE SEASON.

I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE GOING TO WIN ENOUGH GAMES TO GET IN THE PLAYOFFS, BUT RIGHT NOW, IT'S BEEN A BATTLE.

IT'S BEEN A STRUGGLE.

BUT I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE FACT THAT THEY WERE ABLE TO HANG WITH SEATTLE.

>> Eric: HAVE YOU BEEN OUT TO THE NEW WINTER PARK OUT THERE IN EAGAN TO ASSESS THE NEW COACHING STAFF AND THE NEW FRONT OFFICE FOR THE VIKINGS?

>> OH, YEAH.

THEY'VE HAD MINI CAMPS AND OTAs.

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> THEY THINK THEY'RE DOING WELL.

THEY THINK THEY'RE MAKING THE STEPS TOWARDS GETTING EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDING THEIR NEW SYSTEM.

>> Cathy: THEY ALWAYS SAY THAT, DON'T THEY?

>> HEY'RE GOING TO PLAY A NICKEL DEFENSE, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A THREE-MAN FRONT, FOUR, FIVE LINEBACKERS, THEY THINK THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO FORCE QUARTERBACKS TO THROW INTO LITTLE WINDOWS AND THAT'S GOING TO HELP THEM FORCE TURNOVERS AND THAT TYPE OF THING.

AND, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE THE ONLY TEAM IN NFL HISTORY THAT'S PLAYED 60 YEARS AND HADN'T WON A SUPER BOWL.

AND, SO, THIS WILL BE YEAR NUMBER 61.

SO HOPEFULLY THEY CAN START MOVING IN THAT DIRECTION BECAUSE THEY'VE CERTAINLY BROKEN A LOT OF VIKINGS FANS' HEARTS OVER THE YEARS.

>> Cathy: YES.

>> Eric: YOU SOUND SKEPTICAL.

IS IT ENOUGH TO HAVE A DIFFERENT RESULT?

>> WE'VE HAD ENOUGH TIME TO GET USED TO KIRK COUSINS, I'VE SEEN A STAT, HE'S THROWN MORE TOUCHDOWNS OF 40 YARDS OR MORE THAN ANY QUARTERBACK IN THE NFL, MORE THAN TOM BRADY.

>> Eric: THERE YOU GO.

>> I'M SAYING WOW!

IS THIS THE YEAR?

WE'LL SEE.

YOU KNOW, THEY'VE GOT SOME TALENTED RECEIVERS WITH THIELEN AND OBVIOUSLY JEFFERSON.

THEY'VE GOT DELVIN COOK WHO'S STILL A TERRIFIC RUNNING BACK.

THE OFFENSIVE LINE'S NOT BACK.

NOT BAD.

AND THEY GOT A COACH WHO WON THE SUPER BOWL LAST YEAR AS OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR.

HOPEFULLY THEY'LL HAVE ENOUGH OFFENSIVE STRATEGY AND DETERMINATION WITH THE FACT THAT THEY'RE GETTING SOME PEOPLE BACK HEALTHY ON DEFENSE THAT THEY CAN STOP PEOPLE FIRST AND GET ON TOP OF SOMEBODY AND MAYBE BE A PLAYOFF TEAM.

PLAY 17 GAMES.

>> Cathy: YOU GUYS BOTH LIKE GOLF.

>> Eric: WELL, I DON'T LIKE PLAYING IT BUT I LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE ABOUT IT.

>> Cathy: THERE WE GO.

THE PGA, THIS WHOLE PGA TOUR WITH THE SAUDI LEAGUE, WHAT'S WITH THAT?

>> WELL, THE SAUDIS HAVE A LOT OF MONEY.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE BLAME THEM FOR SEPTEMBER 11th.

AND THEY'VE GOT HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES.

YOU KNOW, OUR COUNTRY HAS ISSUES WITH THIS AND THAT.

BUT I TRULY BELIEVE THAT THE PGA IS DOING THE RIGHT THING AND THE PLAYERS THAT HAVE DEFECTED, 17 OF THEM, INCLUDING DUSTIN JOHNSON AND PHIL MICKELSON, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE'S THINKING, WON SIX MAJORS, FINISHED SECOND IN THE U.S. OPEN SIX TIMES.

BUT IF SOMEBODY THROWS 20 MILLION AT YOU, YOU SAY, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT?

I'LL TAKE IT.

SO THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT IT IS.

>> Eric: THEY PLAY GOLF FOR MONEY.

WHAT DOES IT MATTER WHERE IT COMES FROM?

>> WELL, WHEN YOU -- A GUY WON A TOURNAMENT, THE FIRST WON IN LONDON A WEEK AGO, THEY PAID HIM $4.5 MILLION.

HE HADN'T BEEN CLOSE TO WINNING A TOURNAMENT IN OVER A DECADE.

SO THEY PLAY A SHOTGUN START, 54 HOLES IN, THERE'S NO CUT.

THEY'RE JUST THROW YUP MONEY.

AND, SO -- THROWIN' MONEY.

SO THE PLAYERS THAT ARE AT THE END OF THEIR CAREERS ARE SAYING, HEY, I'LL TAKE THE MONEY.

I'LL WORRY ABOUT THE NEGATIVE PUBLICITY.

>> Eric: THE CHECK CLEARED, THOUGH.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

>> Eric: THANKS, LARRY.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: GOOD TO SEE YOU.

♪♪ >> ERIC: THE JANUARY 6 HEARINGS HAVE BOLSTERED INTEREST IN NATIONAL POLITICS, AND TALKS HAVE BROKEN DOWN CONCERNING A POSSIBLE RETURN OF LAWMAKERS TO ST. PAUL.

THERE'S MORE STATE POLLING AND FUNDRAISING DATA TO TALK ABOUT TOO.

LET'S CHECK IN WITH A PAIR OF RETIRED STATE SENATORS FOR THEIR TAKE ON POLITICS FAR AND WIDE.

AMY KOCH IS A FORMER SENATE MAJORITY LEADER, STILL POLITICALLY ACTIVE IN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY.

JEFF HAYDEN IS A FORMER ASSISTANT SENATE MAJORITY LEADER.

HE'S A DEMOCRAT AND A LOBBYIST.

MADAM LEADER, DID SCOTT JENSEN, THE REPUBLICAN GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE, HAVE ANY INFLUENCE ON THE REPUBLICAN SENATE KIND OF WALKING AWAY FROM NEGOTIATIONS?

>> NO.

I THINK THE MEMBERS HAD SOME OF THAT.

I THINK PERHAPS WHAT WE SAW WAS LEADERSHIP NEGOTIATED, AND THEN PROBABLY DIDN'T, LIKE, ROPE IN THE MEMBERS AS THEY SHOULD HAVE, AS THE NEGOTIATIONS WENT ON AND VICE VERSA, RIGHT?

WHEN THEY GAVE US THE GLOBAL DEAL ABOUT A WEEK FROM THE END OF SESSION, I WAS REALLY SURPRISED THAT ABOUT THREE OR FOUR DAYS PASSED AND WE DIDN'T HEAR ABOUT MEETINGS BETWEEN, LIKE, THE CHAIRS OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES OR THE CHAIRS OF EDUCATION OR THE CHAIRS OF BONDING WHERE LEADERSHIP IS SORT F WEIGHING IN AND UNSTICKING THOSE COMMITTEES.

AND INDEED WHAT HAPPENED IS THEN, YOU KNOW, ALL OF THAT SORT OF, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, I THINK SOME MISCOMMUNICATION THERE, NEGOTIATIONS BROKE APART.

>> Eric: THE DEMOCRATS CHOSE NOTHING OVER TAKING THE REPUBLICAN OFFER HERE.

I WONDER, IS THAT SMART?

>> YEAH, I WOULDN'T LOOK AT IT THAT WAY.

I WOULD SAY THAT THE DEMOCRATS WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT THEIR VALUES AND THAT THEIR PRINCIPLES WERE GOING TO BE REFLECTED THERE, NOT THAT A TAX DEAL WASN'T.

BUT THEY HAD OTHER THINGS THAT THEY WERE HEARING, THE ISSUES WITH THE SCHOOLS AND EDUCATION, THE NURSING HOME AND PCA CRISIS THAT WE HAVE, EVEN IN BONDING, WHICH AMY AND I BOTH WORK ON, THERE ARE JUST A LOT OF THINGS IN THE BONDING BILL THAT WAS GOING TO HELP ALL OF MINNESOTA.

AND I THINK THEY IDN'T WANT TO LEAVE THERE SIMPLY WITH JUST A TAX BILL.

>> Cathy: DO YOU THINK HOLDING BACK THE TAX BILL WAS A SMART MOVE?

>> I THINK SO.

I MEAN, I WISH THE SPEAKER AND THE MAJORITY LEADER WOULD HAVE GOT TOGETHER AND KIND OF BROUGHT THEIR CHAIRS IN AND STARTED TO CLOSE THINGS UP.

SOMETIMES WE CALL IT GOING TO THE PRINCIPAL'S OFFICE.

WE BOTH HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN THAT.

I WISH THEY WOULD HAVE DONE THAT.

BUT I DO THINK I IT'S A SMART MOVE TO MAKE SURE THAT SHE CREATED SOME LEVERAGE FOR HERSELF.

>> Eric: POLITICAL IMPACT?

WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT INFLATION AND JANUARY 6?

>> I MEAN, RIGHT, I HONESTLY THINK THAT GAS PRICES AND FOOD PRICES ARE GOING TO BE THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE, FOLLOWED CLOSELY BY PUBLIC SAFETY AND WHAT'S BEEN GOING ON.

HOWEVER, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT, I THINK THAT PEOPLE WILL BE ANNOYED, RIGHT, AS A REPUBLICAN I SAY, THAT'S NOT GOVERNMENT'S MONEY, THAT'S NOT THE LEGISLATORS' MONEY, THAT'S THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA'S MONEY AND IT'S JUST SITTING THERE, THAT'S NOT THEIR MONEY.

IT'S OUR ONEY.

WE PAID IT IN.

AND, SO, I THINK THERE WILL BE SOME PUSHBACK ON THAT AND THERE SHOULD BE.

>> Cathy: SO YOU DON'T THINK THE JANUARY 6th HEARINGS ARE GOING TO -- DO THEY LAND ON DEAF EARS FOR VOTERS?

>> I DON'T THINK THEY'RE FALLING ON DEAF EARS.

HERE'S WHAT I WOULD SAY, I WOULD SAY THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP WAS IMPEACHED.

THE ACTORS THAT STORMED THE CAPITOL ARE BEING PROSECUTED.

RIGHTFULLY SO.

BY THE WAY, THE ATTACK ON JANUARY 6 IS A STAIN ON OUR DEMOCRACY AND REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS SHOULD STAND UP AND SAY THAT.

IT'S NOT CONTROVERSIAL TO SAY THAT.

PRESIDENT BIDEN WON.

DONALD TRUMP LOST.

HE NEEDED TO CONCEDE.

AND WHAT HAPPENED WAS TERRIBLE.

I THINK THAT TWO THINGS ARE HAPPENING HERE.

SO IT CONTINUES ON EVEN THOUGH THOSE THAT ARE WERE RESPONSIBLE HAVE BEEN HELD TO ACCOUNT, IN LARGE WAYS, AND I THINK THE AMERICAN PEOPLE ARE ASKING, WHY DOES THIS CONTINUE TO GO ON?

WELL, THE CHAIR OF THE DEMOCRAT COMMITTEE GAVE US, SEAN PATRICK MALONEY, SAID IN "THE NEW YORK TIMES," WELL, THIS IS GOING TO SHOW THAT REPUBLICANS WERE COMPLICIT.

IT'S POLITICAL, RIGHT?

IT'S POLITICAL.

AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.

WHAT I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY SHOWN, I'LL JUST QUICKLY FINISH, AS WE SAW THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL BAHR STOOD UP AGAINST THIS -- BARR STOOD UP AGAINST THIS PRESIDENT, WE SAW THAT THE WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL STOOD UP AND SAID, I WANT TO HEAR TWO WORDS AND THAT IS, ORDERLY TRANSITION.

WE SAW THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, UNDER TREMENDOUS RESSURE, LOOK THIS PRESIDENT IN THE EYE AND SAY, ABSOLUTELY NOT, I WILL NOT DO THAT.

>> Eric: WHAT'S YOUR POINT OF VIEW ON JANUARY 6 HEARINGS?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

I THINK ESPECIALLY THE PRIME TIME SPECIAL.

I HEARD A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT YOU SEE IT, BUT THERE'S SUCH FAST NEWS CYCLES, I THINK IT REALLY SHOWS THE AMERICAN PUBLIC LIKE HOW CLOSE THEY WERE FROM ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, CREATING A COUP IN THIS COUNTRY.

AND I DON'T THINK EVERYBODY UNDERSTOOD IT.

I THINK AMY CLEARLY DOES, MAYBE I DO.

BUT I THINK THAT EVERYBODY ELSE IS STARTING TO UNDERSTAND THAT, LIKE, WE GOT TO PUSH BACK, THAT'S NOT US.

LIKE THOSE FRINGES ON THE OUTSIDE, THAT'S NOT US.

AND THIS IS THE MIDDLE.

SO, HOWEVER POLITICAL PARTIES USE IT IS ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

BUT I'VE TALKED TO ENOUGH PEOPLE WHO RE HORRIFIED AND DIDN'T REALLY KNOW HOW CLOSE WE WERE TO, LIKE, OVERTOPPLING THE GOVERNMENT THAT DAY.

>> Cathy: YOU WOULD SAY, THOUGH, THAT BEYOND JANUARY 6th, VOTERS ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO GAS PRICES AND FOOD PRICES AND THAT DOESN'T LOOK GOOD FOR DEMOCRATS?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT THEY ARE.

BUT I ALSO THINK THAT THEY'RE THINKING BOUT MASS KILLINGS AND SHOOTINGS, RIGHT?

I THINK THAT THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT THEIR ELDERS GETTING KILLED AND THEIR CHILDREN GETTING KILLED.

I THINK THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT THEIR REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH, RIGHT, WHAT THAT MEANS TO THEM AND THAT'S A SLIPPERY SLOPE EVEN BEYOND THE ISSUE OF SLOPE, BUT IS THAT A SLIPPERY SLOPE TO INFRINGE UPON OTHER THINGS IN SOCIETY.

I THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT A LOT OF ISSUES.

I THINK PUBLIC SAFETY IS ONE.

ONE OF THOSE ISSUES.

BUT I THINK PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT A LOT OF ISSUES.

I THINK THEY'RE THINKING ABOUT SCOTT JENSEN SAYING THAT HE'S GOING TO COME IN AND KIND OF WIPE OUT LIKE ALL THE PEOPLE THAT HE DOESN'T LIKE IN THE GOVERNMENT.

I THINK THOSE THINGS PEOPLE ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO.

>> Eric: REAL CLEAR POLITICS HAS MOVED THE REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC GOVERNOR'S RACE IN MINNESOTA TO A TOSSUP.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Eric: TIM WALZ HAS MORE MONEY BUT I WONDER HOW THIS WILL OPEN THE SPIGOTS FOR MONEY FOR SENATOR JENSEN.

>> IT CERTAINLY WILL.

AND HE'S BEEN DOING QUITE WELL JUST ON HIS OWN WITHOUT -- WITH THE BIG MONEY DEFICIT.

AND I THINK WHAT THAT SHOWS IS THAT HE'S GOT A STRONG MESSAGE, HE IS UNDERSTANDING THAT THIS ELECTORATE IS FRUSTRATED, THEY'RE WORRIED, THEY'RE SCARED.

34% INCREASE IN FOOD PRICES THIS YEAR.

IF YOU'RE NOT ADDRESSING THAT, AND I SAW A TWEET FROM GOVERNOR WALZ YESTERDAY THAT TALKED ABOUT SUCH A STRONG ECONOMY AND UNEMPLOYMENT IS AT A LOW, WELL, THAT'S JUST NOT WHAT WE'RE SEEING.

WHEN WE GO TO THE GAS PUMP AND IT COSTS US DOUBLE WHAT IT DID JUST A YEAR AND A HALF AGO TO FILL OUR TANKS, WE'RE NOT THINKING, OH, THIS IS A SUPER STRONG ECONOMY.

WE'RE THINKING, WHERE IS THIS GOING?

HOW FAR IS IT GOING?

AND WHAT AM I GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS?

>> Eric: ARE DEMOCRATIC VOTERS DOWN IN THE DUMPS?

>> WELL, I WILL SAY THIS, THAT WHEN REPUBLICANS WALK AWAY FROM THE LEGISLATURE, RIGHT, WHEN THEY WALK AWAY FROM THE TABLE, AND THERE WAS $9 BILLION THAT COULD HAVE HELPED PEOPLE, I THINK THERE'S A COUNTER MESSAGE THERE BEYOND THE GLOBAL ISSUES, TO SAY WE COULD HAVE DONE SOMETHING, THE LEGISLATURE DIDN'T GET IT DONE, JUST YESTERDAY WILDLY -- WIDELY REPORTED, LIKE THERE'S PROBABLY A LOT OF THINGS WE COULD HAVE DONE, WHAT WAS FOR SURE, ENATOR MILLER CAME IN AND SAID, THIS IS WHAT I WANT, AND IF I DON'T GET IT, I'M NOT BOUND BY MY AGREEMENT AND WALKED AWAY FROM THE TABLE.

THAT'S WHAT HE SAID.

>> I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A LOT OF HE SAID, SHE SAID, E SAID, THOUGH.

I THINK THAT'S JUST ORDINARY POLITICIANS, LIKE POINTING FINGERS.

THEY SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN SOMETHING DONE, I AGREE, JEFF.

LIKE PEOPLE THINK THAT THE SOCIAL SECURITY XEMPTION HAPPENED, THEY THINK THAT THEIR SOCIAL SECURITY PAY IS GOING TO BE EXEMPT, I HAVE TO LOOK T PEOPLE IN THE EYE AND GO, I'M SO SORRY TO TELL YOU, IT DID NOT, IT DID NOT PASS.

IT WON'T BE.

>> Eric: SO YOU'RE SAYING, WE WON'T HAVE A THOROUGH PRINCIPLED DEBATE ON THE FUTURE OF THE STATE'S BUDGET SURPLUS DURING THE CAMPAIGN?

IS THAT WHAT YOU TWO ARE SAYING?

YOU TWO CYNICS.

>> I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE GAS, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE BABY FORMULA AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE PUBLIC SAFETY.

>> THINK SOME OF THAT THING WILL BE RESOLVED.

IT'S STILL A LONG TIME THERE.

BUT I DO THINK THAT PEOPLE ARE GOING TO HIT THESE DOORS, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF REPUBLICAN PRIMARIES, AND THEY'RE GOING TO HIT THE DOORS AND PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE SAYING, HEY, WAIT A MINUTE, I GOT TO, YOU KNOW, MY SCHOOL DISTRICT IS RUNNING A DEFICIT, MY NURSING HOME IS GOING TO CLOSE, AND I NEED YOU GUYS TO GO BACK TO WORK.

AND, SO, MAYBE I'M HOPING THAT THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING.

MAYBE THAT'S WHAT I'M PROJECTING OUT THERE.

BUT I DO HOPE THAT THAT, FOR THE FIRST TIME, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT AMY, THINK SHE WOULD SAY THE SAME THING, FOR THE FIRST TIME WE AD ENOUGH RESOURCES, USUALLY WE HAVE MORE ASK, WE CAN ONLY DO HALF OR A QUARTER OF WHAT PEOPLE ASK, WE COULD HAVE DONE 3/4 OF WHAT EVERYBODY WANTED.

>> AGAIN, IT'S NOT THEIR MONEY, IT'S OUR MONEY.

>> Cathy: WHAT DID YOU THINK OF THE MINNPOST POLL, KIND OF INTERESTING, THE GREATER MINNESOTA NUMBERS DID NOT LOOK GOOD FOR THE GOVERNOR AND HE DID PRETTY WELL IN GREATER MINNESOTA THE FIRST TIME AROUND.

>> CLEARLY HE'S GOT A PROBLEM IN GREATER MINNESOTA.

WHEN I GOT IN THE MINNESOTA SENATE, YOU KNOW, 12 YEARS AGO, 14, 15 DEMOCRATIC, YOU KNOW, SENATORS AND WE'RE DOWN TO VERY FEW, ESPECIALLY AS SENATOR BAKK AND TOMASSONI KIND OF DEFECTED TO BECOME INDEPENDENTS.

SO I THINK THAT THAT'S A REAL PROBLEM FOR DEMOCRATS.

I THINK WE HAVE TO GET PRAGMATIC.

I THINK THAT WE PROBABLY HAVE VEERED TOO FAR TO THE LEFT AND WE HAVE TO KIND OF DO COMMON-SENSE THINGS TO KIND OF GET THOSE FOLKS BACK.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU THINK?

>> I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE A LOT OF ADVICE TO GOVERNOR WALZ BECAUSE I'M ON THE OTHER TEAM BUT WHAT I SAY IS, HE'S GOT TO FIND SOME FIRE.

HE'S GOT TO FIND SOME ENERGY AND SOME FIRE AND E DOESN'T HAVE IT RIGHT NOW.

I DON'T FEEL IT FROM HIM AND I DON'T THINK THE PEOPLE IN MINNESOTA DO.

SCOTT JENSEN IS ALL ABOUT, HE'S PASSIONATE.

>> Eric: WHAT DOES IT MEAN THAT 44% IN THAT MINNPOST POLL HAVE NEVER HEARD OF SCOTT JENSEN?

>> REFERENDUM ON THIS GOVERNOR, REFERENDUM OF WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

>> I THINK ONCE THEY GET GET O KNOW SCOTT, I KNOW HIM PRETTY WELL, HE'S A SMART GUY, WELL ACCOMPLISHED, BUT I DON'T THINK DISCIPLINE IS HIS STRONG SUIT.

WE DON'T QUITE KNOW WHAT HE'S GOING TO SAY AT ANY GIVEN POINT IN TIME.

I AN SAY THAT BY WORKING WITH THEM.

>> IT'S MANY MONTHS BEFORE THE ELECTION.

>> Cathy: IS THAT A PROBLEM FOR HIM?

>> WELL, HE IS CERTAINLY NEW AND GREEN TO THIS, RIGHT?

AND, SO, -- AND HE IS SMART AND HE'S GONE A LONG WAY WHEN PEOPLE DID NOT NECESSARILY THINK HE WOULD END UP WHERE HE'S ENDED UP AS THE TOP OF THE TICKET AND UNCHALLENGED.

SO HE'S MAYBE GOT A LITTLE MORE IN HIM THAN SENATOR HAYDEN THINKS.

>> Eric: WHERE ARE DEMOCRATS, I SAW A HEADLINE IN "THE WASHINGTON POST" TODAY, BIDEN GIVES SIGNALS HE'LL RUN AGAIN.

ARE DEMOCRATS -- >> I DON'T KNOW WHO'S GIVING THOSE SIGNALS.

[ Laughter ] >> Eric: BIDEN IS GIVING THE SIGNALS.

>> I DON'T KNOW.

MAYBE HE'S JUST SAYING THAT.

BUT I THINK DEMOCRATS ARE -- YOU KNOW, THEY VOTED FOR BIDEN, THEY WISH THE PRESIDENT WELL.

BUT I THINK THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE LINING UP HO THINK THAT MAYBE IT'S TIME FOR SOMEONE DIFFERENT.

>> I THINK THOSE SIGNALS ARE LIKE THIS FROM THE DEMOCRATS.

NEU [ Laughter ] WHICH IS A WAVE OFF.

NO, NO.

>> Eric: NO BIDEN/TRUMP REMATCH?

>> ABSOLUTELY NO.

I DON'T THINK IT WILL BE TRUMP EITHER.

>> Eric: OH, REALLY?

>> NO, I DO NOT THINK.

>> Cathy: OKAY.

WHO WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE RUN?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I THINK THAT THERE'S, I MEAN, THE VICE PRESIDENT IS PROBABLY GOING TO LINE UP.

PETE BUTTIGIEG, AMY KLOBUCHAR, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF FOLKS THAT ARE GOING TO LINE UP.

I'M NOT SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF THEM.

NO DISRESPECT TO THE PRESIDENT.

BUT I THINK THERE ARE A OT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE LINING UP WHO HAVE SOME FRESH IDEAS, WHO WANT TO MOVE ORWARD.

I ACTUALLY THINK ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, IF I MAY, THAT LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE TRUMP'S INFLUENCE, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GOING TO BE HIM.

>> Eric: DESANTOS.

>> YEAH, I THINK DESANTOS IS THE FRONTRUNNER, HE'S AHEAD OF TRUMP IN THE POLLS AT THIS POINT.

THERE WILL BE OTHERS THAT WILL COME FORWARD.

THERE ARE SEVERAL THAT ARE LOOKING AT THAT.

>> Eric: IS TINA SMITH NOT RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION AS A SENATOR?

>> I DON'T KNOW IF SHE'S SIGNALED THAT OR NOT.

I THINK PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO THINK ABOUT IT.

BUT I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM ER THAT SHE'S NOT RUNNING.

>> Cathy: OKAY.

>> Eric: THAT WOULD BE A WILD, DEMOCRATIC ENDORSEMENT BATTLE.

>> THAT WOULD BE A BIG ONE.

>> Cathy: NO SPECIAL SESSION, ALL RIGHT, WE'RE DONE WITH THAT, I GUESS.

WHAT ARE WE GOING TO TALK ABOUT THIS SUMMER?

THAT'S IT.

>> THERE SEEMS TO BE A LOT OF NEWS OUT THERE.

>> THE CAMPAIGNS WILL GENERATE PLENTY, I THINK.

>> Cathy: THAT IS VERY TRUE.

>> Eric: THANKS, SENATORS.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> CATHY: NOW FOR THE PART OF THE HOUR WHERE WE ASK YOU HISTORY QUESTIONS, WHICH YOU SOMETIMES FUMBLE.

LET'S SEE HOW YOU DO THIS TIME AROUND.

THE YEAR IS 1958.

THE SAME YEAR THAT THE FRANK LLOYD WRIGHT GAS STATION IN CLOQUET OPENED.

BACK THEN THE MINNEAPOLIS TRIBUNE RAN WEEKLY POLLS OF STATE RESIDENTS.

WE'RE ASKING ABOUT A POLL THAT RAN IN NOVEMBER OF THAT YEAR.

IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION, 42% OF STATE RESIDENTS SUPPORTED THE STATE DOING SOMETHING FOR FREE.

HERE'S A HINT.

THIS FREE SERVICE IS NOW WORTH TENS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS.

BACK IN 1958, WHAT DID 42% OF STATE RESIDENTS THINK SHOULD BE PROVIDED FOR FREE?

WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU WHETHER YOU ARE CALLING IN FROM CASH LAKE, DOLLAR LAKE, MONEY CREEK OR JACKPOT CREEK.

651-229-1430.

REMEMBER, SOMETHING THAT NOW COSTS MANY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS AND THAT 42% OF MINNESOTANS SUPPORTED THE IDEA OF GETTING IT FOR FREE.

YOU CAN EMAIL YOUR ANSWER TOO.

ALMANAC@TPT.ORG IS THE WAY TO DO THAT.

FOR SHOW-ENDING MUSIC, LET'S HEAR ANOTHER TUNE BY RICK CARLSON AND MAUD HIXSON.

THEY WILL HAVE TWO FREE PERFORMANCES NEXT WEEK AS PART OF NEXT WEEKEND'S TWIN CITIES JAZZ FESTIVAL.

GO TO THEIR WEBSITE FOR THE FULL SCHEDULE.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

WE'LL SEE NEXT WEEK.

♪ COPPER COMES FROM ARIZONA, PEACHES COME FROM GEORGIA, AND LOBSTERS COME FROM MAINE ♪ ♪ THE WHEAT FIELDS ARE THE SWEET FIELDS OF KANSAS ♪ ♪ OLD WHISKEY COMES FROM OLD KENTUCKY, AIN'T THE COUNTRY LUCKY, NEW JERSEY GIVES US GLUE ♪ AND YOU, YOU COME FROM RHODE ISLAND, AND LITTLE OLD RHODE ISLAND IS FAMOUS FOR YOU.

♪ COTTON COMES FROM LOUISIANA ♪ GOPHERS FROM MONTANA, AND SPUDS FROM IDAHO ♪ ♪ THEY PLOW LAND IN THE COW LAND OF MISSOURA ♪ ♪ WHERE ROAST BEEF MEANT FOR ROAST BEEF SEEMS TO ROW ♪ ♪ GRAND CANYONS COME FROM COLORADO, GOLD OMES FROM NEVADA, DIVORCES ALSO DO ♪ ♪ AND YOU, YOU COME FROM RHODE ISLAND ♪ ♪ AND LITTLE OLD RHODE ISLAND IS FAMOUS FOR YOU ♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION Captioned by: Paradigm Reporting & Captioning www.paradigmreporting.com ♪ INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC ♪ ♪ ENCILS COME FROM PENNSYLVANIA ♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY: GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 28 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

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ENBRIDGE: CONNECTING MINNESOTANS WITH ENERGY FOR OVER 70 YEARS.

MORE AT ENBRIDGE.COM/LINE3US.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

"ONE GREATER MINNESOTA" REPORTING ON "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY: THE OTTO BREMER TRUST, WHOSE MISSION IS INVESTING IN PEOPLE, PLACES, AND OPPORTUNITIES IN OUR REGION.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY: THE BLANDIN FOUNDATION, WORKING TO STRENGTHEN RURAL MINNESOTA.

"ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.