>> THIS WEEK ON TO THE CONTRARY... PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES RESPOND TO THE DEADLY ATTACK IN FRANCE AND DIVERSE VOTERS AND THE G.O.P.

CONVENTION.

THEN MASCULINITY IN THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE.

AND JENNIFER ANISTON TAKES ON THE TABLOIDS SAYING THEY ARE SEXIST COVERAGE HARMS WOMEN AND GIRLS.

[♪♪♪] >> HELLO I'M BONNIE ERBE WELCOME TO TO THE CONTRARY A DISCUSSION OF NEWS AND SOCIAL TRENDS FROM DIVERSE PERSPECTIVES.

UP FIRST, THE TERRORIST ATTACK IN FRANCE AND UNREST AT HOME IMPACT THE PRESIDENTIAL RACE AS IT ENTERS A NEW PHASE.

AS REPUBLICANS GATHER IN CLEVELAND FOR THEIR CONVENTION DONALD TRUMP SUPPORTERS HOPE TO BAR ANY CONFLICT BY HIS OPPONENTS IN THE PARTY OR VIOLENCE BY DEMONSTRATORS OUTSIDE THE HALL.

TRUMP IS ALSO HOPING HIS VICE-PRESIDENTIAL PICK WILL UNITE THE G.O.P.

UNITY WAS THIS WEEK'S THEME FOR HILLARY CLINTON.

SHE SPOKE AT THE OLD STATE HOUSE IN ILLINOIS.

WHERE ABRAHAM LINCOLN DELIVERED HIS HISTORIC HOUSE DIVIDED SPEECH 160 YEARS AGO.

SHE PORTRAYED HERSELF AS THE ONLY CANDIDATE CAPABLE OF BRINGING THE COUNTRY TOGETHER.

>> MY LIFE'S WORK IS BUILT ON THE CONVICTION THAT WE ARE STRONGER TOGETHER.

NOT SEPARATED INTO FACTIONS OR SIDES.

NOT SHOUTING OVER EACH OTHER.

BUT TOGETHER.

>> BUT TRUMP UNCHARACTERISTICLY TOUCHED ON UNITY IN THE WEEK LEADING UP TO HIS PARTY'S CONVENTION.

IN A VIDEO REACTING TO THE DALLAS MASSACRE OF POLICE.

>> TOO MANY HEADLINES FLASH ACROSS OUR SCREENS EVERYDAY ABOUT THE RISING CRIME AND RISING DEATH TOLLS IN OUR CITIES.

NOW IS THE TIME FOR PRAYERS, LOVE, UNITY AND LEADERSHIP.

>> POLLS SHOW A TIGHT RACE.

A "NEW YORK TIMES" CBS POLL HAD CLINTON AND TRUMP IN A DEAD HEAT.

THAT AFTER SHE WAS SIX POINTS AHEAD THE WEEK BEFORE F.B.I.

DIRECTOR JAMES COMEY ACCUSED HER OF GROSS NEGLIGENCE IN THE PRIVATE SERVER E-MAIL SCANDAL.

CLINTON RECEIVED THE ENDORSEMENT OF DEMOCRATIC RIVAL BERNIE SANDERS.

SO, WHICH CANDIDATE WILL BE BETTER AT UNITING THE COUNTRY OVER RACIAL TENSIONS AND OR PROTECTING THE COUNTRY AGAINST TERRORISM?

>> NEITHER.

BOTH HAVE SHOWED A FAILURE TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER IN ALL THESE WEEKS AND MONTHS THEY HAVE BEEN STUMPING.

I'M VERY UNHOPEFUL LET'S SAY FOR NOVEMBER.

>> YOU KNOW, ON TEMPERAMENT AND EXPERIENCE CLINTON IS WAY AHEAD.

WHEN IT COMES TO TRUMP THERE IS ONE ISSUE: TRUMP.

>> I AGREE.

BUT I WILL SAY HILLARY DURING THE DEBATES CALLED REPUBLICANS HER ENEMY.

SHE WANTS TO BE THE UNIFYING CANDIDATE SHE HAS TO PROVE THAT SHE CAN BE THE CANDIDATE FOR BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS.

>> I THINK TO SEE WHO WILL BE MORE UNIFYING YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT YOUR KIDS.

MY FIVE-YEAR-OLD ASKED ME IF DONALD TRUMP IS A BAD GUY AND HILLARY'S AD WHAT ARE OUR KIDS HEARING, THERE IS NO DOUBT IT WILL BE HILLARY.

>> LET'S TALK FIRST ABOUT THE CONVENTION WHICH YOU MAY OR MAY NOT BE ATTENDING AS A DELEGATE BECAUSE THE TRUMP PEOPLE ARE OPPOSING YOU BECAUSE YOU WERE BOUND TO MARCO RUBIO.

THEY DON'T LIKE THAT?

>> DONALD TRUMP DID NOT WIN VOTES IN WASHINGTON D.C.

I WAS BOUND TO MARCO RUBIO AND MADE ANTI-TRUMP COMMENTS AND TRUMP SUPPORTERS SAW TO IT THAT I FOUGHT A CHALLENGE I AM IN THE MIDST OF THE CHALLENGE.

WHETHER I WILL BE THERE MONDAY HAS YET TO BE SEEN.

BUT HERE, I LOOK AT THE TEXT WITH DEFINITION OF UNITY AND THAT IS ONENESS NOT BEING DIVIDED AND RESPECT FOR ONE ANOTHER'S IDEAS.

AND I REASON I SAID NEITHER CANDIDATE ON BOTH SIDES AND DONALD TRUMP IS MY PARTY IS NOT PRESUMPTIVE NOMINEE AND HE HAS FAILED UTTERLY FAILED TO BRING PEOPLE TO THE CAMP AND SAY LOOK THIS IS A PARTY FOR ALL OF US.

WE MAY HAVE VARYING DIFFERING IDEAS BUT THIS IS HOW WE CAN MOVE TOGETHER AS ONE.

AND I THINK HILLARY HAS THE SAME CHALLENGE.

ALL THE WEEKS AND MONTHS SHE HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO GRAB THAT MILLENNIAL VOTE AND WE ARE STUCK WITH TWO DIVIDED PEOPLE AT THE HELM.

>> POLLS SHOW SHE IS GETTING MOST OF THE SANDERS FOLLOWING.

>> IT'S ABOUT PARTY UNITY AS WELL.

THE REPUBLICANS ARE FALLING APART AND WITH BERNIE SANDERS COMING OUT STUMPING WITH HILLARY AND I SAID THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

AFTER THE PRIMARIES WE ARE GOING TO UNITE BEHIND OUR CANDIDATE.

BUT THE REPUBLICANS CANNOT DO THAT DESPITE THE FACT THEY HAVE ONE CANDIDATE.

>> I WILL COME BACK.

AS A MEMBER OF THE PLATFORM COMMITTEE FOR THE NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND PEOPLE CLINTON PEOPLE WERE THERE STRONG AND WE HAD FIRST OF ALL THERE WERE 55-45.

THAT SHOWS YOU HOW MUCH THEY HAD ALREADY WON AND WHAT COMPROMISE IS ABOUT.

IN THE END THEY STOOD THEIR GROUND ON SOME ISSUES.

>> WELL THEY GOT THE $15 MINIMUM WAGE BUT THEY DID NOT GET ANYTHING ON TRADE AGREEMENTS.

>> NO.

BUT THEY DID GET COMPROMISE LANGUAGE.

WE DID NOT WANT TO GIVE THE BACK OF OUR HAPPENED TO THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES WHO IS SUPPORTING THE TRADE AGREEMENT.

AND SO WE COULD NOT GO THE WHOLE WAY WITH THEM.

BUT YOU WILL NOTICE THERE WAS NO DRAMA COMING OUT OF OUR PLATFORM.

I WONDER WHETHER THEY ARE GOING TO PICKOFF THE NEVER TRUMP PEOPLE ONE BY ONE AS THEY HAVE PICKED YOU OFF.

>> THE THING THAT MAKES THE PARTY FOR THE PARTY IN A TOUGH POSITION PUT ME IN A TOUGH POSITION IS OUR INDIVIDUALNESS IN THE PARTY.

LOOK, BERNIE SANDERS JOINED THE COLLECTIVE.

DEMOCRATS ARE KNOWN TO BE MORE COLLECTIVE.

REPUBLICANS WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT WE CAN BE AGAINST EACH OTHER IN THE SAME PARTY AND MAYBE THAT IS WHAT IS DIVIDING US.

BUT I CAN BE A RUBIO PERSON AND STILL SAY NO I WILL NOT BE FOR DONALD TRUMP.

AND I'M RESPECTED.

>> I WANT TO GET TO THE UP COMING CONVENTION.

THE POLLS A WEEK BEFORE THE CONVENTION WERE SHOWING CLINTON AHEAD BY ABOUT SIX POINTS AND THEN SHE HAD A BAD WEEK WITH COMEY AND THE F.B.I.

GOING INTO THE CLEVELAND CONVENTION THEY WERE DEAD EVEN ON A NATIONAL SCALE.

THERE'S USUALLY A CONVENTION BUMP OF 10 POINTS OR SO.

WILL TRUMP COME OUT 10 POINTS AHEAD?

AND WILL IT LAST?

WILL HE BE ABLE TO HOLD ON TO THAT?

>> HE MAY, I WILL SAY YES WE EXPECT A BUMP AFTER THE CONVENTION BUT IT'S HARD TO SAY.

THERE'S SO MUCH THAT CAN HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND THE END OF THE CONVENTION.

BY BOTH CANDIDATES.

THERE CAN BE SLIP UPS.

YOU KNOW TRUMP HAS SORT OF EDGED -- ISCH KAING UP TO HILLARY -- IS CATCHING UP TO HILLARY AND HE HAS NOT HAD MAJOR MISSTEPS AND SCANDALS.

POLLS ARE A SNAPSHOT AND WHAT IS GOING ON RIGHT NOW BUT IT'S HARD TO PREDICT WHAT WILL HAPPEN.

>> ARE THE POLLS RELEVANT?

>> AT THIS POINT, HARDLY.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT WHERE OBAMA WAS LAST TIME YOU UNDERSTAND THAT.

SO EACH WEEK WHAT HAPPENS THAT WEEK WILL DETERMINE THE POLLS FOR THE WEEK.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN HERE BUT THIS IS WHAT I EXPECT... GET ANYBODY TO PARTICIPATE.

AND ASSUMING THAT THAT DOES HAPPEN, SOMETHING IS WRONG IF YOU DO NOT GET A BUMP OUT OF YOUR CONVENTION.

BECAUSE THE CONVENTIONS ARE ENTIRELY SCRIPTED.

>> AND WHAT IS HIS VICE-PRESIDENTIAL PICK GOING TO DO FOR HIM, ESPECIALLY AMONG WOMEN VOTERS?

>> PICK UP PEOPLE WHO ARE ANTICHOICE AND WE WERE TALKING EARLIER -- >> DID WE GET THAT ALREADY?

>> IT WILL REENERGIZE THAT BASE AND HOW PENCE IS AGAINST THE MUSLIM BAN IT WILL BE INTERESTING HOW TRUMP BACK PIVOTS AROUND THAT BUT THEY ARE ON THE SAME PAGE WHEN IT COMES TO WOMEN'S REPRODUCTIVE HEALTH.

>> DO YOU THINK HE WILL PICK UP SUPPORT?

>> IT'S TOO EARLY TO CALL BECAUSE THE RELIGIOUS RIGHT IS FOR GOVERNOR MIKE PENCE BUT THEY ARE FEELING BETRAYED BY THE RNC HAVING FALLEN IN LINE WITH DONALD TRUMP AND KILLING THE EFFORTS OF FREE THE DELEGATES.

IT IS TOO EARLY EVEN AT THIS POINT.

>> I'M WILL HE PICK UP WOMEN?

>> I DON'T KNOW THAT HE WILL.

BECAUSE WE KNOW THE WOMEN WHO ARE HARDLINED IN THE PARTY ARE PART OF THAT RIGHT.

THE EVAN EVANGELICALS BUT THEY MAY FEEL LIKE IF CRUZ IS NOT THERE IT DOESN'T MATTER.

>> VICE-PRESIDENTIAL PICKS DO NOT HAVE A HUGE IMPACT.

>> BUT THEY TRY.

THEY TRY FOR STATE PICKUPS.

>> BUT I THINK THIS CASE -- I THINK THIS CASE IS DIFFERENT.

TRUMP HAS HAD A REAL PROBLEM WITH TRUE CONSERVATIVES AND A PROBLEM WITH ESTABLISHMENT AND EVANGELICALS AND PENCE IS THE GOLDEN BOY OF ALL THREE DEMOGRAPHICS.

THIS WAS AN EFFORT -- >> WHAT ABOUT MONEY AND DONOR SUPPORT?

>> I DO NOT THINK THAT SAY BIG CONSIDERATION.

USUALLY VICE-PRESIDENTIAL PICKS ARE BASED ON THEY NEED A SWING STATE OR CERTAIN DEMOGRAPHIC OF VOTERS AND THIS CASE IT WAS THE BASE AND THE ESTABLISHMENT AND THAT IS CRITICAL TO TRUMP.

>> AND THE MONEY IS LACKING THAT IS A FAIR POINT.

THE RNC LOCKED A LOT OF PLEDGES BECAUSE OF THE REMARKS TRUMP HAS MADE.

>> AND WE GO INTO THE CONVENTION $6 MILLION BEHIND?

THEY NEED $6 MILLION TO PAY ARE NOT CONVENTION?

THAT IS UNUSUAL.

>> AND GOVERNOR PENCE MAY BRING THAT TO THE TABLE.

MAY REENERGIZE THAT.

PAUL RYAN LOVES HIM.

THIS GUY IS LIKE YOU SAID, FILLS THE BOXES.

BUT BORING.

OK. LIKE WHO IS HE GOING TO PICK UP.

>> AND BOTH EXECUTIVES AND HE KNOWS CONGRESS HE IS A GOVERNOR HE WAS IN LEADERSHIP AND HE WAS AN EXECUTIVE.

HE BRINGS INCREDIBLE EXPERIENCE.

>> SOMETHING TRUMP DOES NOT HAVE.

>> HE BRINGS SOMETHING ON THE OTHER SIDE OF A CANDIDATE WHO HAS HAD THREE WIVES, BUNCH OF BIMBOS AND EVERYTHING THAT ALL THE CONSERVATIVE RIGHT IS AGAINST.

THEY NEED TO REENFORCE THE ENTHUSIASM OF THAT PART OF THEIR PARTY WHICH IS A HUGE FACTION OF THE PARTY.

>> HOW DOES THAT PLAY IN THE RACE, BUT BEFORE THAT, I HAVE TO BE A LITTLE BIT CYNICAL AND SAY NOW THAT TRUMP HAS EVERY KID OF HIS SPEAKING DURING THE CONVENTION AND NOBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THIS, BUT SOMEBODY DID ASK HIM IF HE WON THE PRESIDENCY, MIGHT HE WALK AWAY FROM IT?

AND HE SAID I WILL GET TO THAT IN I GET THERE.

SO IS THIS REALLY BACK TO SHOWING OFF THE TRUMP FAMILY SO THEY CAN ALL IMPROVE THE BRAND?

I MEAN SOMETIMES YOU GET THE IMPRESSION THAT HE IS ALL ABOUT THE BRAND AND NOT ABOUT POLITICS.

>> I WONDER WHERE WE GET THAT IMPRESSION THAT TRUMP IS ALL ABOUT HIMSELF.

I WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED.

HE BACKTRACKS ON EVERYTHING AND HE HAS NOT SPENT ANY MONEY ON TV ADS THE WAY CLINTON IS.

HIS WAR CHEST IS SMALLER.

HE RELIES ON THE FREE PUBLICITY.

>> I THINK HE IS ABOUT THE BRAND, ABSOLUTELY.

AND HE IS UNPREDICTABLE.

EVERYTHING HE SAYS IS BAFFLING BOTH TO THE PRESS AND VOTERS.

YOU CANNOT TRACK THIS GUY.

SO I DO THINK THAT HE IS ALWAYS GOT BUSINESS AND ALWAYS GOT HIS OWN INTERESTS AND A FAMILY FIRST IN MIND.

>> THE TRUMP KIDS PICKED GOVERNOR PENCE.

>> AND THEY GOT LIEU WANT DO YOU SKY OUT.

>> AND THE TERRORIST ATTACK IN FRANCE HOW IS THAT GOING TO AFFECT THE RACE?

>> IT WILL AFFECT -- THESE ARE SHORT-TERM ISSUES.

AND THE DEMOCRATS OUGHT TO HOPE FOR YOU DO NOT HAVE ONE OF THESE ATTACKS BEFORE THE ELECTION THAT COULD SWING YOU ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

SO ALTHOUGH TERRORISM IS NOT IN CONTROL OF ANY CANDIDATE OF EITHER PARTY, TRUMP BENEFITS FROM BEING A REPUBLICAN.

HERE IS WHERE TALKING TOUGH MATTERS.

SHE HAS THE CREDENTIALS AND HERES WHERE WE ARE LUCKY.

NORMALLY WE WOULD NOT HAVE A CANDIDATE WITH CREDENTIALS LIKE BEING SECRETARY OF STATE DURING A TIME OF TERRORISM AND HAVING SOMETHING OTHER THAN THE TRADITIONAL DEMOCRATIC VIEW ON WAR AND PEACE.

SO THAT WILL HELP US AND WHEN SHE GETS TO TALKING ABOUT IT PEOPLE WILL LISTEN.

>> HILLARY WAS IN A SITUATION ROOM DOING THE RAID ON BIN LADEN.

I THINK SHE SHOULD TALK ABOUT THAT.

AND BENGHAZI OVERSHADOWS THAT.

IT'S HUGE.

>> YOU CAN SAY SHE WAS IN THE SITUATION ROOM BUT MANY PEOPLE BLAME HER FOR THE SITUATION WE ARE IN AND THE INCREASE IN TERRORIST ACTS.

I THINK HER EXPERIENCE DOES HER NO GOOD.

I DO NOT THINK IT HELPS HER.

TO THE AVERAGE VOTERS PEOPLE SEE HER AS I AFAILURE AS A SECRETARY OF STATE AND SHE WILL CONTINUE TO FAIL AS A PRESIDENT.

>> AND THE PEOPLE NEED TO CHECK THEIR HISTORY AND FOUND OUT HOW WE GOT TO DESTABILIZING THE MIDDLE EAST.

>> IF WE ARE GOING TO BLAME GEORGE BUSH YOU SHOULD SAY SHE CONTRIBUTED TO THE WORSENING OF THE SITUATION.

THEY DID NOT IMPROVE THE SITUATION.

>> EVEN TRUMP BLAMED -- LET'S MAKE THAT POINT.

WITH THE POSSIBILITY OF HILLARY CLINTON BECOMING OUR FIRST FEMALE PRESIDENT MUCH HAS BEEN MADE ABOUT THE ROLE OF FEMININITY IN HOW AMERICANS VIEW CANDIDATES.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE ROLE OF MASCULINITY?

ANALYSTS SAY HER OPPONENT DONALD TRUMP MADE HIS TOUGHNESS AND MANLINESS A CENTRAL PART OF HIS APPEAL.

>> IN THIS CAMPAIGN AND EVERY OTHER CAMPAIGN IT'S BEEN ABOUT MASCULINITY AND MANHOOD.

THE PRESIDENT IS THE HEAD OF THE FIRST FAMILY, AGAIN, COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

HE IS THE LITERAL REPRESENTATIVE OF THE COUNTRY ON THE INTERNATIONAL STAGE.

AND FOR A COUNTRY THAT SEES ITSELF IN THE WAY THE UNITED STATES SEES IT GOING BACK TO GEORGE WASHINGTON EVERY PRESIDENT HAS BEEN THE IN A CERTAIN SENSE, THE ARC TYPAL MAN THE EMBODY.

OF THE COUNTRY AND FOR A WOMAN TO ASCEND TO THAT SPACE AND OCCUPY THAT TERRAIN MEANS THAT SHE IS GOING TO DISRUPT THE SYMBOLIC ARCHITECTURE OF A CERTAIN KEY PART OF MEN'S DOMINANCE.

AND THAT IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY IT IS AN UPHILL FIGHT FOR WOMEN.

>> THE ELECTORATE HAS BEEN SPLIT IN A SIMILAR SPHATION.

CLINTON LEADS TRUMP BY A MASSIVE MARGIN AMONG WOMEN ACCORDING TO A PEW POLL.

TRUMP LED AMONG MEN T COULD BE THE LARGEST GENDER GAP EVER RECORDED.

>> DONALD TRUMP IS SUCH -- HIS MISOGYNY IS SO EXPLICIT THAT IT'S NOT JUST HIS POLICY POSITIONS LIKE OPPOSING WOMEN'S RIGHTS TO REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM.

IT'S NOT JUST THIS POLICY POSITIONS.

TIES' HIS PERSONA AND THE AGGRESSIVE WAY HE DISMISSED WOMEN AND REDUCED WOMEN TO SEXUAL OBJECTS WOMEN CAN SEE THAT THE MAN IS CLEARLY HAS DEEP MISOGYNY AS WELL AS HIS OTHER NARCISSISTIC PERSONALITY TRAITS.

BUT SO IT DOESN'T SURPRISE ME THAT WOMEN WOULD BE PUT OFF.

THAT IS IRRESPECTIVE OF HIS POLITICAL BELIEF SYSTEM.

>> CONGRESSWOMAN LOOK AT BRITAIN, SECOND CONSERVATIVE FEMALE PARTY LEADER THAT HAS BEEN ELECTED THERE.

AND HILLARY CLINTON IS -- AS YOU MENTIONED EARLIER, SHE IS TO THE RIGHT OF A LOT OF DEMOCRAT THAT IS WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS WITH BERNIE SANDERS SUPPORTERS.

IS SHE TOUGH ENOUGH TO OVERCOME FEMININITY AS AN ISSUE?

U A WORD OF CAUTION.

>> A WORD OF CAUTION.

THIS IS THE MOST MA KEYS MALL CANDIDATE IN HISTORY AND COUNTRY SETTLED BY THE NOTION OF MANHOOD AND GUNS AND ALL OF THAT IS STILL IN OUR DNA.

THIS IS NOT GREAT BRITAIN WHERE GUNS ARE OUTLAWED.

THIS IS NOT THE GERMAN REPUBLIC BOTH OF WHICH HAVE FEMALE PRIME MINISTERS.

WE HAVE NOT GOT TO ASSUME AS FAR AS WE HAVE COME AS FEMINISTS THAT MEN ARE REALLY READY TO RAISE THEIR HANDS AND SAY I WANT A WOMAN TO BE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

SHE IS GOING TO HAVE TO WORK VERY HARD FOR IT.

>> I CANNOT BELIEVE I'M SAYING THIS BUT I AGREE ON THAT ONE.

THAT -- IT'S TREMENDOUS RIGHT.

WE LOOK AT GREAT BRITAIN BUT I WANT TO SHED LIGHT WHAT HAPPENED WITH THE ANDREA WHO DROPPED OUT OF THE RACE AND THERESA MAY NOW PRIME MINISTER.

SHE DOES NOT HAVE CHILDREN.

ANDREA SAID LOOK SHE DOES NOT HAVE CHILDREN I WOULD BE BETTER BECAUSE I HAVE CHILDREN I HAVE A VESTED FUTURE AND MORE AT STAKE.

WHY ARE WE COMING DOWN ON WOMEN FOR HAVING KIDS AND NOT HAVING KIDS?

MAYBE THERE'S SOMETHING BEHIND THAT.

MAYBE NOT HAVING KIDS SAYS NO I HAVE MORE TIME FOR THE JOB.

I WILL BE A LEADER.

BECAUSE I WILL PUT EVERYTHING INTO THIS.

>> WHAT ABOUT HAVING ONE KID?

THE CLOSEST COMPROMISE.

>> SURE.

BUT NOT HAVING KIDS MAKES PEOPLE THINK THAT YOU ARE FREED UP AND YOU HAVE A TIME LIKE A MAN TO THROW EVERYTHING INTO IT.

THAT IS MACHO, TOO, THERE ARE WOMEN THAT ARE SEEMED TO BE INDEPENDENT, FIERCE, STRONG MINDED.

WHY IS THAT THE CASE?

WHY ARE WE ALWAYS JUDGING WOMEN LIKE THAT?

I THINK WE'VE TURNED POLITICS ON ITS HEAD IN TERMS OF THE GLOBAL STAGE BECAUSE WE ASK THE QUESTIONS AND THERE IS NO GOOD ANSWER.

>> WHAT WOULD HILLARY HAVE TO DO TO FIT INTO THE OUTDATED CONCEPT OF FEMININITY?

SHE COULD NOT WIN.

>> BAKING COOKIES IS NOT WHAT YOU NEED TO DO TO WIN PRESIDENT.

ONE THING TO BE THE FIRST LADY.

>> BUT THAT QUESTION ABOUT HER FEMININITY.

WHAT DO THEY EXPECT?

THEY WANT AN APRON?

I THINK WE NEED TO STOP TRYING TO FIT HER INTO THE BOX.

THE TIMES ARE CHANGING AND SHE WILL BE CHANGING THE NARRATIVE.

>> I DO NOT THINK THE AMERICAN VOTER IS AS CONCERNED ABOUT THE FACT SHE A WOMAN.

WHAT THE AMERICAN VOTER WANTS IS LEADERSHIP.

AND I THINK HER E-MAIL SCANDAL HAS REALLY BEEN A HIT TO HER.

IT MAKES HER LOOK FEEBLE AND WEAK.

THAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE.

IT'S NOT THAT SHE IS A WOMAN AND SHE IS FEMININE AND THAT SHE DOESN'T SORT OF MATCH TRUMP'S MA CHEESE MOW.

IT IS A LEADERSHIP QUESTION AND I THINK PEOPLE LIKE TRUMP HAS -- >> BUT DOES THE FACT THAT SHE HAS HAD THE WEAKNESSES THIS BAGGAGE AS A CANDIDATE DOES THAT MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO TEASE IT OUT FROM WHETHER SHE WERE A WOMAN WHO DID NOT HAVE SUCH BAGGAGE BUT WERE A DEMOCRAT WOULD BE ABLE TO GET ELECTED PRESIDENT?

>> DO I NOT WANT TO DISMISS THE FACT SHE HAS ADDED BURDEN BEING A WOMAN AND THE FIRST WOMAN SHE IS A TRAIL BLAZER TRYING TO GET TO THE HIGHEST OFFICE.

I THINK IT'S LESS OF AN ISSUE THAN MAYBE WE THINK IT IS.

>> AND I'M CURIOUS WHY DON'T CONSERVATIVE WOMEN GIVE HER MORE CREDIT IN THE SENSE THAT SHE IS TO THE RIGHT OF MANY DEMOCRATS AND IS MORE HAWKISH NO DOUBT ABOUT T SHE WENT FOR THE BOMBING ON LIBYA BUT THAT STILL DOESN'T MATTER AS MUCH AS THAT SHE USED A PRIVATE E-MAIL SERVER AS DID COLIN POWELL WHEN SECRETARY OF STATE.

>> WE CAN DRAG OUT WHAT COMEY SAID IT WAS INCREDIBLY YOU IRRESPONSIBLE.

I KNOW PEOPLE THAT WORK IN THE INTELLIGENCE COMMUNITY AND THEY ARE HORRIFIED BY WHAT OCCURRED.

I DO NOT THINK IT IS -- IN FACT IT WOULD BE SEXIST TO GIVE HER A PASS.

LOOK, SHE IS GOING FOR THE PRESIDENCY.

YOU DO NOT GET A PASS ON THESE THINGS.

THIS IS NATIONAL SECURITY AND IT'S VERY IMPORTANT AND WE SHOULD TAKE IT SERIOUSLY AND TREAT HER LIKE WE WOULD TREAT A MAN.

>> THE WAY YOU WOULD TREAT A MAN -- >> THAT IS WHAT WE ARE DOING.

>> WAIT A MINUTE.

ARE YOU OK WITH THAT?

>> ABOUT TREATING HER THE SAME AS A MAN?

ABSOLUTELY.

I DO NOT SEE IN THIS DISCUSSION, THE FEMININE PART OF IT.

I SEE THE POLITICAL PART OF IT.

>> AND YOUR LAST WORD?

>> CONSERVATIVE WOMEN ARE SPLIT ON HILLARY.

I HAVE TO TELL YOU.

THERE ARE WOMEN MODERATE REPUBLICANS SAYING I WILL GO TO HILLARY I WAS ONE OF THOSE WOMEN.

AND I WILL NOT BE IN NOVEMBER BUT I HAVE TO SAY CONSERVATIVE WOMEN ARE SPLIT BECAUSE THEY KNOW SHE IS MORE RIGHT.

HOWEVER THE OTHER HALF SAYS ANYONE BUT THE CLINTONS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER @BONNIEERBE.

>>> FROM MASCULINITY AND POLITICS TO GENDER AND EXPECTATIONS.

ACTRESS JENNIFER ANISTON MAY BE BEST KNOWN FOR HER TABLOID COVERAGE.

BUT IN A THOUGHTFUL AND POWERFUL STATEMENT TO THE PUBLIC ON-LINE THIS WEEK, SHE CALLED OUT GOSSIP-RIDDEN TABLOID COVERAGE OF WOMEN AS OBJECTIFYING, SECURITY NIGHTING, ABSURD AND DISTURBING AND SAYS TABLOIDS PORTRAY WOMEN IN WAYS THAT MAKE LITTLE GIRLS THINK THEY ARE NOT BEAUTIFUL IF THEY ARE NOT TALL AND SKINNY AND BY CONSTANTLY TRYING TO FIND OUT IF SHE IS PREGNANT TABLOIDS FURTHER THE NOTION THAT WOMEN ARE NOT COMPLETE UNLESS THEY ARE MARRIED WITH CHILDREN AND WROTE QUOTE WE ARE COMPLETE WITH OR WITHOUT A MATE, WITH OR WITHOUT A CHILD.

WE GET TO DECIDE FOR OURSELVES WHAT IS BEAUTIFUL WHEN IT COMES TO OUR BODIES.

THAT DECISION IS OURS AND OURS ALONE.

LET'S MAKE THAT DECISION FOR OURSELVES AND FOR THE YOUNG WOMEN IN THIS WORLD WHO LOOK TO US AS EXAMPLES.

END QUOTE.

SO SINCE SHE IS NOT BY HER OWN MAKING BUT THE QUEEN OF TABLOID COVERAGE FOR THE LAST DECADE OR SO, WILL WOMEN LISTEN TO HER AND STOP BUYING INTO THIS MA SONGNIST STUFF?

>> THEY ARE LISTENING TO HER RIGHT NOW AND I LOVE SHE SPOKE OUT.

THE PUBLIC HAS BEEN WAITING FOR JENNIFER ANISTON TO BE PREGNANT.

SHE HAS BEEN PENALIZED ABOUT IT.

HER DIVORCE WITH BRAD PITT WAS PUBLIC.

THIS WOMAN IS NOT GOING TO BE HAVING BABIES IF SHE DID NOT WANT TO HAVE BABIES WITH BRAD PITT.

>> ISN'T THAT SEXIST?

>> MOST PEOPLE WOULD THINK HER CURRENT HUSBAND IS ATTRACTIVE.

>> HE IS.

BUT I'VE NEVER GOTTEN OVER BRAD PITT.

AND SHE IS RIGHT.

SHE IS RIGHT.

WE MAKE OUR OWN DESTINIES AND SHE IS ALMOST 50 IF SHE DOES NOT WANT TO HAVE KIDS SHE IS NOT GOING TO BE HAVING THEM.

>> I DON'T KNOW WHERE TO COME DOWN EXCEPT TO SAY THAT BRAD PITT IS A LUCKY GUY TO HAVE AN EX AND WIFE IF FOR WOMEN.

ANGELINA MAKING THE SPEECH AND THIS PIECE FROM JENNIFER ANISTON, NO, IT'S GREAT.

WE SHOULD TIP OUR HATS TO WOMEN AND I WANT TO SEE MORE COMMENTARY LIKE THIS IN SOCIETY.

>> HERE IS WHERE THE MESSENGER COUNTS IT'S NOT COMING FROM PEOPLE WHO PREACH THESE ISSUES ALL THE TIME.

AND YOU ARE RIGHT.

PEOPLE WILL LISTEN BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT HEARING.

>> WILL THEY LISTEN TO THE POINT WHERE THEY STOP BUYING THE STUFF?

>> NO.

NO.

>> WHICH IS TO SAY THAT -- WOMEN WHO PROPAGATE THE TABLOIDS.

>> AND LOOK IT MIGHT BE A DARK SIDE OF US THAT WHEN WE PURCHASE THESE ITEMS.

LOOK THESE -- THERE IS AN INTENSE INTEREST IN CELEBRITIES THEY HAVE EVERYTHING THEY HAVE STAFF, HOMES AND VACATIONS AND THERE MIGHT BE A DARK SIDE THAT SAYS LOOK THEY HAVE CELLULITE OR GETTING DIVORCED AND NOT HAPPY.

THERE IS A MARKET FOR THIS AND A DEMAND.

I'M NOT DEFENDING THE TABLOIDS THEY ARE VILE AND SAY TERRIBLE THINGS BUT THEY ARE FULFILLING THE DEPEND.

>> AND WE LOOK AT ANGELINA AND JENNIFER AND THEIR BEAUTY AND THEY ARE BEAUTIFUL.

BUT THE THING IS -- [ALL TALKING AT ONCE] >> SHE IS TALL, SKINNY AND BLOND WHICH IS WHAT EVERYBODY IS SUPPOSED TO BE INCLUDING YOUR CHILD WHO IS NOT GOING TO BE BLOND NATURALLY.

>> I THINK SHE IS OK.

I HATE TO SAY THAT.

I LOOK AND SAY SHE IS ALL RIGHT.

I LIKE ANGELINA MORE BUT BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER.

>> THAT IS MY POINT.

MY QUESTION IS: WILL HEAVY SET LITTLE GIRLS LIKE I WAS, LOOK AND LISTEN TO HER AND NOT WANT TO BE -- NOT THINK THAT TALL SKINNY AND BLOND IS THE WAY TO GO?

>> I HOPE SO.

WHAT WAS DIFFERENT IS ANISTON WROTE AN OP-ED IN THE HUFFINGTON POST WITH HUFFINGTON.

>> CONDEMN THE TABLOIDS AS I DO THEY SHARE THAT WITH THE MAINSTREAM PRESS THE SAME TALL SKINNY WHITE BLOND GIRLS ARE FEATURED IN THE REGULAR PRESS.

>> CELEBRITIES PROVIDE A LOT OF THIS INFORMATION TO THE TABLOIDS.

WE HAVE HEARD CASES OF CELEBRITIES CALLING UP PAPARAZZI SAYING I WILL BE HERE.

THEY ARE THE COMMODITY.

>> AND WE HEARD ABOUT DONALD TRUMP DOING IT.

>> OF COURSE.

CELEBRITIES -- THERE IS A RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN PAPARAZZIS AND THE TABLOIDS AND THE STARS.

>> THAT IS IT FOR THIS EDITION.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AND VISIT OUR WEBSITE, PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

AND WHETHER YOU AGREE OR THINK TO THE CONTRARY, SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

TO SEE AN ON-LINE VERSION OF THIS EPISODE OF TO THE VARY VISIT PEB PEB.

OUR PBS.ORG/TOTHECONTRARY.

[♪♪♪]