- Meet the Republican and Democratic nominees for North Carolina Secretary of State on this very special election edition of "State Lines".

[patriotic music] [patriotic music continues] Hello there, I'm Kelly McCullen.

This "State Lines" special will introduce us to the candidates for North Carolina Secretary of State.

Just a few facts about the Secretary of State's office.

Its origins can be traced back to about 1665, when we were a colony.

Secretaries are elected to four year terms and do not face term limits.

They do a lot of work there, so we're gonna talk about that work with our first guest, Democratic nominee, Elaine Marshall, and longtime Secretary of State incumbent, if you will.

Good to see you, Secretary.

- Thanks, Kelly, it's good to be here, and thank you for that little history lesson.

I sometimes tell folks the office is older than the state, and they look at me like, "Wow."

And it is, and some of the things that the Colonial Secretary of State did, we do today.

- You're the record keeper of the state, and this is just a fun question not even on my script here, but do you still have old records from 1600s and 1700s on file?

- We do.

We do.

We've digitized everything, however, though, but historical things we have, and we have things locked up under many locks and keys that are just really valuable signatures and records of the state.

- Well, let's talk about your candidacy and your work as Secretary of State since 1997.

This state changes every four years, so if you only do your candidacy every four years, thousands of new voters may not know who Elaine Marshall is, but millions more do.

Who are you and what have you done for the last 27 years?

- Okay, I've done a lot.

I am Elaine Marshall.

I'm a native of Maryland.

I came here right after college.

I was raised on a family farm.

My dad's a farmer, and my mother was a church organist and a farmer's wife, which is really an occupation.

She also taught music at home.

I'm a product of 4-H in the public schools.

4-H was very, very important to me growing up.

That's where I learned a lot of leadership and public speaking and parliamentary procedure and all kinds of valuable things that I use today, every day.

I'm a home economist.

I came to North Carolina and taught in the public schools of Lenoir County, also at Lenoir Community College.

And I started some businesses, a card and gift business, a decorating business, a college bookstore that was a spinoff of the other bookstore.

And then I was divorced and I needed to reinvent Elaine, and that's when I went to Campbell Law School.

I was living in Harnett County and Campbell had started a new law school, and it was in its opening days, and it was actually the best thing I ever did to reinvigorate myself, acquire a new profession.

I practiced everyday law, country girl law, I used to call it, in Harnett County, everything that came through the door, with some exceptions.

But I then served in the North Carolina Senate and then became Secretary of State, actually doing a lot of the things that I did in the private practice of law, forming businesses, lending agreements, contracts, all of the kinds of things that are involved in the Secretary of State's office, so.

- What is it about state service that bites you, gives you that bug to wanna serve?

And this goes to other offices as well and other people's.

I've always wondered, you're a lawyer, you had your own office, you've built businesses, but you end up Secretary of State.

- Yes, but being a lawyer, you're a problem solver for people.

You learn about their personal lives and their needs and some very compelling things, and then some problems in the law that you think, like the domestic law, as I was doing a lot of domestic in my practice, and actually, equitable distribution came on, and that was one of the things that motivated me to run for the North Carolina Senate.

We needed some female voices at the General Assembly, and to point out issues and inequalities in the law and things to make more standards.

And just back then, women couldn't...

They weren't entitled to, even if they owned the property during marriage, the husband was in control and could receive all the money.

So there were really some antiquated laws on the books that had to go.

And then with equitable distribution, it became fairer for women if something happened to that marriage.

So, problem solving is what I do as Secretary of State.

There are issues that affect the whole business community.

The biggest problem we solved was changing the antiquated, static, clunky version of a website into something that today is held out as a modern way that citizens and businesses should be able to interact.

We are very much encouraging online filing.

When the pandemic came around, we started seeing this tremendous increase in new LLCs and corporations coming along.

And my tech staff, and I do have a tech staff, we decided we had to upgrade the forms and the online filings, and now we have been able to take out a lot of the choke points when you're processing a lot.

We had a 50,000 entity increase in one single year, and had we not developed this technology, we'd have been dead in the water.

- Hold on, you dropped a fancy term, entity.

You're saying 50,000 people tried to start 50,000 new businesses?

- New businesses.

An entity is a new business.

It could be a nonprofit.

To us, it could be a LLC, or it could be a corporation.

Most people are filing LLCs these days.

- What does adding even 50,000 above average, what does that do to this state's economy, to have so many people trying to start so many small entities, nonprofits?

- It's huge, it's huge.

So many of our people are employed by small businesses.

It's vitality for rural communities, and I'm really focusing on rural economic development in the last two years and wanna do more going forward.

The ecosystem for people starting businesses around Raleigh, Durham, Charlotte, pretty strong.

But you get out to Bertie County, Bladen County, Swain County, the ecosystem for entrepreneurs getting started is pretty thin.

However, North Carolina nonprofits and federal entities have lots of help, but the people don't know about it, so there's a significant knowledge gap.

When we started seeing all these new entities, we started surveying them to find out what they needed, what they would've liked.

And the upshot of that is a program called RuralRISE, R-I-S-E, stands for resources for innovators, startups, and entrepreneurs.

And this is a way that we communicate in these rural areas with local, local information for them, where in their county can they get help on getting their books right?

Where can they get help on HR?

Where can they get help on legal for small businesses starting up, without having to hire professionals all around that, some cases, don't even exist?

Our community colleges have wonderful small business centers, and people just don't know about it.

There are also nonprofits out there.

We've even found zero interest lenders.

Getting people ready for the financial aspects of where they might be four or five years down the road starts the day that they file, really.

Getting their books in order so that they're credit worthy, so that they can get that loan or get that truck or buy that piece of property, which really helps anchor a business.

Today, today, every business day that we're open, we are forming between 650 and 700 new business entities.

That is whiplash territory.

- How long does it take to start a business, from the time I go home tonight and tell the family I wanna start one?

I have to file with you, of course, Secretary of State.

Is it a weeks, months, years long delay?

Days?

- Well, now, it depends.

You know, you really should have some business consultation before you actually form.

You should be doing some research.

Is the name available you want, or does somebody else has it?

You can't have it, you know?

All of that kind of stuff.

Our technology doesn't allow you to make that mistake, but there needs to be some preliminary consideration about how you're gonna do it, how you're gonna set it up.

But if you come to us, generally, we can turn these around in a period of a week, or maybe a little longer, depending if it's a rush time.

My goal is always three to five days.

However, I don't have enough staff to do that.

I don't have enough technology to do that.

But we are right now turning them around very quickly.

I deal with lawyers every day who are very happy with the speed that we turn 'em around, if there are no problems with it.

- With COVID sparking a lot of first time business owners setting up LLCs and other nonprofit organizations, do you see that as a bubble in our history that is just captured in that pandemic era, or did it start a trend of accelerated business development?

- It has started a trend.

After that first year, that 50,000 bump, that took us up to about 178,000 that year.

We have not dropped below 170,000 any year since then.

So, while it's eased off a little bit, it has not eased off very much.

That's why I say 650 to 700 today.

Those are between those two numbers.

- So, I get it's 2024 and we have computers, we have, you know, the gigabit fiber internet, you have a new website, and it's moving faster.

Have the fundamentals of business creation through the Secretary of State's office changed at all over those years?

Are we deregulated from the '90s, or are we more regulated, or are we just smarter?

- Exactly the same regulations, but we're able to deliver the services a lot faster.

The law hasn't changed very much.

The General Assembly says what you have to have to create this new entity, whatever it might be, that has to be reported to the state.

And then annual renewal every year to keep it updated and make sure that you're current active.

Every day, other businesses use our website, which is free, 24/7.

Other states, it's not free.

I'm keen on keeping it free.

'Cause every day, buy, sell, lend, borrow, invest, insure, decisions are made, and those little sniplets of information are up there.

Due diligence, banks, when they open accounts.

Insurance companies don't write a policy on a commercial vehicle or a piece of land unless they know that that entity is current active.

So, all of those little important pieces of information are available 24/7.

That's why North Carolina's number one and number two in doing business.

Ease of formation, ease of filing, all of those kind of things go into the evaluations that allows North Carolina, it's our competitive edge, which allows North Carolina to maintain.

- You know the politics in Raleigh and how they are, how they have been, and how they're likely to be going into the future.

How resilient has your office been in navigating the different types of leadership and getting what you need from Republican budget writers, as well as back when Democrats were doing that budget?

You've managed to do it somehow.

- Well, business is not a red, blue, Democrat, Republican concept.

Everybody wants North Carolina to grow.

I think everybody wants people to fulfill their dreams, whether it's being employed by some company or starting their own and having a little more management over their time and that kind of thing.

So, we've had good support from the legislature with regard to our policies.

With regard to financing, this General Assembly is not very keen on increasing more state employee members.

That's been difficult for us.

And at the same time, acquiring appropriate technology financing is also very difficult.

We could do more if we had more.

- Do you see artificial intelligence playing that role?

If legislators don't wanna expand the state government personnel ranks, could you use computers to do the thinking and the talking and the assisting for North Carolina business creators?

- I suppose it is possible.

I don't know that we're at that level here at the state.

Our main state IT office has not yet given directives of the parameters that we should be considering in using artificial intelligence.

I think there are some opportunities, but yet I'm not sure where the boundaries on those are.

- About one minute left, what would you like to see the Secretary of State's office do better, or evolve and improve upon?

- Well, I'd really like there to be widespread economic opportunity through the Secretary of State's office.

Rural counties are losing population, they're losing leadership, and if we can have homegrown businesses there...

In our survey of over 4,000 folks that started during the pandemic, a lot of 'em have two or more employees, a lot of 'em are making at least $50,000.

So that's a good start.

We don't wanna lose these.

We wanna give 'em more life for a longer period of time.

And in the rural areas, that is beyond essential.

We just need to make sure that our rural areas are vibrant, 'cause the worst thing that can happen is somebody that wants to come back home to their family, they've gotten educated or training somewhere else, and say, "Mom, Dad, I just can't come back," or, "My spouse won't come back."

You know, we've got to make sure that North Carolina is equally accepting and vibrant all across the state.

That's got to be our future.

That's got to be our hope.

- All right, this is Democratic nominee for Secretary of State and incumbent, Elaine Marshall.

Ms. Marshall, thank you so much as always for coming to PBS North Carolina and being on "State Lines".

I think the first time you've been on the set, so.

- It is.

Thanks very much.

- Thank you very much.

Well, absentee ballots will start being mailed out in early September.

In person early voting will begin on October 17th, 2024, and will end on November 2nd, 2024.

Election day, your traditional election day is November 5th, 2024.

That's also the deadline that absentee ballots must be received by elections offices.

Don't forget that.

And all voters, you will be asked to present a photo identification.

[upbeat music] Welcome, Republican nominee for Secretary of State, Chad Brown, to the set.

Mr. Brown, thanks for joining us, making that long drive from Gaston County.

- Well, thank you for having me today.

It's a pleasure to be here.

- Republican primary voters might remember you from 2020, when you ran a statewide race in that GOP primary for Secretary of State, but for all the new people who've arrived and folks who didn't vote in that primary, who are you?

- Well, I'm Chad Brown, I'm Chairman of the Gaston County Commission.

I have been there for the past 14 years as a Gaston County Commissioner.

Before that, I was a mayor of Stanley, North Carolina, so I cut my teeth in politics, small town, local politics, trying to get ready for what I wanna do in life, and that's try to help people and promote a robust economy throughout North Carolina.

So that's how we got into the Secretary of State's race.

Before that, I was a professional baseball player for 11 years, and I've been in the business sector for the last 20.

So, just cutting my teeth around the state and trying to figure out how we can meet people and find out what's going wrong in North Carolina, and how we can have a solution for it.

- I wanna split up your leadership at the local level, beginning with being mayor of Stanley, North Carolina.

That's an executive position.

What did you learn from that role running a small town?

And do the skills scale, or how do you see yourself broadening as an executive?

- I think as a small town, you really had some chances to make some mistakes, that you had some oversight with some people who could help you with really good guidance.

As you got further into that...

I'll never forget my very first day there, I made a mistake on who waters the flowers.

And so when you think about that, a small scale, now all of a sudden, you get to local politics as a county level, as chairman, you know, you try to figure out things and how to make the best impact on a county.

As you look, we've cut taxes over 30.5 cents since I've been there, and that's been a big boost to what's happening in Gaston County.

But the biggest thing we do there is economic development, and that's part of why I wanna take to the Secretary of State's office and try to engage in that facet of business.

- What have you learned most about being a commissioner on a board of commissioners, and then elevating yourself out to be selected chairman?

- Well, I think when you work with seven people every day to try to figure out a common goal, that there's how you get a good governance of what's happening, get a good feel for it.

Having a good staff also is a big part of that.

When you have a good staff, and I've been a part of staffs that have been difference of opinion, and when you have of what my goals and my faith and I look at as how I guide myself as values, that's how you find...

But when you become the chairman of the board, you have a lot of responsibility that's happening, so you basically are guiding those other people along with you to have a common goal, but also, you have to lead a county to make sure that you're doing the right thing and keeping the fiduciary responsibilities at hand.

- I've interviewed 100 state legislators and all these Council of State members in years past, and your experience, politically, clearly slots for a variety of offices.

You could have run for State House, US House, State Senate, yet you're going for Secretary of State the second time now.

What about that particular role has kept your attention?

- Well, I think the biggest part, when you talk about the legislature's influence on myself, I have a great mentorship there in Gaston County.

Also, surrounding counties, Lincoln County, Jason Saine was a big mentor to me.

So when you get to see about those things and how they happen, it makes a difference.

But I wanna stay here with Secretary of State because the business aspect, I wanna build this, and I wanna make sure that people understand that Secretary of State plays a big role in what's happening in business, and small business is a backbone of what we do, and I wanna make sure we take care of those people.

- For folks who don't follow Council of State very closely, and their civics even less, what should they expect out of a Secretary of State's office?

Not a secretary of state or a politician, but as an office, as a body, as it fits into North Carolina government?

- Well, I think you have to look at it as more than a government official.

It's a dedicated public servant to one particular aspect.

You're doing the record keeping of the General Assembly.

You're also making sure that you have the administrative duties of what's happening.

So, businesses, LLCs, S corps, the governance over who is a lobbyist.

Sports agents, for instance, is a small one, but you also have securities destinations that you have to take care of.

So there's many different facets inside the office.

To say that one overwhelms another, I think the purveyance of the businesses of North Carolina is the biggest part of that.

- You're running as an alternative candidate to the incumbent, as the way elections go.

So what are North Carolinians not receiving from the Secretary of State's office that they would be receiving or you would like to see them receive under your administration?

- I think building a robust economy, being involved.

I think also the technological part maybe outran some of the ways and means that we're doing right now inside the office.

It's cumbersome.

When you have to go and it's a 16 week process to open up a small business, we should be able to streamline that and try to figure out how we can work hand in glove with you to make that small business go.

You shouldn't be able to pay a small price to have it expedited.

You should be able to do that.

If we can expedite it now, you should be able to expedite it when it starts.

- From your perspective as a candidate, do delays for small business creation to go through the Secretary of State's office, does that problem fall with the staff that's in place there, and the employees, or is the system over time just grown bloated, so they're following the process, it just happens to be slow?

- Well, I think the employees inside are doing all they can do.

And I know there's been a work ethic need that has to be kind of... A sense of urgency I think is also needed there.

Not saying that these people, because those people do a tremendous job, but what they have in the workload...

I think the other part of that is we gotta have different offices across the state to be able to have that.

We need to have one in a regional area, such as in the west, we need to have one down east, because these people are driving, you know, six to 10 hours to get to meet with the Secretary of State or someone in the office.

And when you do that, you have cumbersome days that need to be taken care of.

And whether an I is dotted or a T is crossed, those things need to come back and be able to be settled at an exponential time.

So when we do these things and we're trying to fix 'em, they need to be fixed in person, but we need to have different places so they can do that.

- From your perspective in business down in Gaston County, how well does Raleigh in general serve the outlying areas, once you get, say, outside the Triad, 120 miles from that radius, around the triangle area?

- I think as you look at myself as a candidate, I'm the only person really from the west, so to speak, as you look at it as a western type of...

I don't think Charlotte and Gaston County is too much west, it's more of the middle of the state, but when you look at it, Raleigh does not really surface outside of Raleigh for the people from that area.

And Charlotte basically takes over that cumbersome area, so.

- What kinda leader are you?

Not only for the North Carolinians, who you would serve, but for the people, the hundreds of people, who would work for you on a day-to-day basis?

What's your style?

- I think the work ethic is where I'm gonna start.

And the reason being, I wanna be hands on.

I wanna be there, I wanna take advice, I wanna listen to what's happening.

And I think when you listen to employees...

I have a thing that we've instituted in Gaston County.

We've instituted making sure that we listen to the employees.

We even have a proxy system that gives you maybe some PTO or something for good ideas that's saving money or doing things that are helping time to be able to fix things.

And we've been doing those, we've found out that when you work with the employee and you help the employee, their tendencies to be a family and work together become a strong bond.

- How partisan should Secretary of State be once we're outside of the campaign season and once the need to articulate differences in platform and personality?

Is this a role where you can see yourself being outward facing, making your opinion known on policy, or do you look inward and run an efficient department?

Or can you do both?

- I think before March 5th, it's very partisan, but once you get after that, you know, you have to be able to reach across the aisle, you have to be able to help others.

An entrepreneur doesn't come with a D or an R by their name, or some other party.

It doesn't come.

It comes with a work ethic.

It comes with somebody who's striving for the American Dream.

And that's what we have to be able to provide.

We have to provide services, but we also have to provide 'em on a basis of whoever you are, your individuality, you come in, we're gonna make sure we strive to help those things, and we're gonna become a part of you.

We want just not just for that day, we wanna be generational that's happening in North Carolina.

I think that's the part we've lost.

We lose as many businesses that close up after we open 'em up, so we have to be able to get them to the next level of generational wealth.

- How hard has it been to elevate the role of Secretary of State as a candidate to get your brand name out there?

You're running against someone who's been in office since 1997.

They've won in Republican years, they win in Democratic years.

You've picked a mountain to climb.

- We picked that mountain to climb because we thought it was the one that best suited for what our abilities are.

I think when you look at that and how that's come about, that number has been shrinking every year.

But I think at the end of the day, since 1877 was the last time a Republican held office for a Secretary of State, and it was appointed.

So, we look at now, you know, our current Secretary of State since 1997, there's some things I think we could add to grow the office, to make it more efficient, but I also think that we can do things to help everyone across the state of North Carolina, because like I said, entrepreneurs, farmers, all the people who are invested in what's going on in North Carolina, we have to invest back with our people and how we're doing it.

So, when you ask about the Secretary of State's office and where it's at, it's a hard road, I'll tell you right now.

People look at it, but it's the number fourth or fifth in line of what's happening inside the state, and it has a vital role.

But at the end of the day, I wanna be a humble servant, I wanna make sure that we do the right thing and we help people.

- Some of your policies are gonna need probably legislative support, if not legislation, to get 'em enacted.

So how do you think you'll manage against a house and Senate that are super majority Republican but yet have very different ideas about this state on some key issues?

- I think some of the biggest... That biggest asset that I will have to bring to the table, obviously being a Republican helps, but also, I've worked with those people in the General Assembly.

I've worked with the Tim Moores and the Phil Bergers of life to make sure that we get things done.

We've had lots of financial gains that's happened inside of Gaston County through infrastructure, and we've had a role, so much so that Mecklenburg County comes to Gaston County to ask us to provide help with them in things that are going on inside of the legislature, so.

- And of course, there's a much more tight governor's race going on between Josh Stein and Mark Robinson.

Of course, Republican, you're supporting, I would presume, Mark Robinson.

But working with a Democrat and an Attorney General of two terms, if he's governor, versus Mark Robinson, the everyman who came from the factories of the Triad, have you thought about that if you take office?

How do you deal with both of those gentlemen?

- I think as you look at it, you know, whether... Let's start first with Mark Robinson, good friend of mine.

We have a baseball card together.

We did a baseball card montage.

We made one for myself and different people across the state to be able to get that out.

But Mark Robinson is a family man.

He's a God-fearing man.

Working with him would be great.

If someone from the other party were to win, I would also be able to cross that aisle to say, "Hey, let's find out where there's some common goals."

Let's find out where the common need for the people, not necessarily what's happening between a Republican or Democrat, how can we work together to work what's best for North Carolina?

And at the end of the day, if we can't work what's best for North Carolina, neither one of us needs to be in that job.

- Probably 100 things you'd like to get done, but there are probably two or three that you really wish you could get done if you're elected.

We got one minute left.

What are those three, and what can we expect if voters trust you?

- Well, I think the biggest thing is working with the small business community.

I love this.

It's my sector.

We've been in Gaston County, we've had the best economic development from overseas, coming in to help with that.

Being working hand in hand with that, that's the biggest piece I want.

I wanna make sure that we bring good companies to North Carolina.

We wanna make sure the people in North Carolina.

We also wanna build kind of a hub and spoke system.

The hub and spoke system should have where if you're a widget maker and you're gonna do it, you should have to know where these materials come from, how to get to 'em, how to expedite, how to do these things, and do it all inside the state, put you guys in a silo together and let you guys work together rather than having to go other states or other countries in order to do business.

- All right, Chad Brown, Republican nominee for North Carolina Secretary of State.

You've given us some copious minutes of your time to discuss your platform.

Thank you, sir, for coming all the way out here from your home base.

Good luck on the campaign trail.

Stay safe out there.

- Thank you so much for having me, and great show, appreciate you having me.

- Good to have you here.

Thank you for watching us.

For more information, visit pbsnc.org/vote.

I'm Kelly McCullen.

Thank you so much for watching.

[patriotic music] [patriotic music continues] - [Narrator] Quality public television is made possible through the financial contributions of viewers like you, who invite you to join them in supporting PBS NC.