>> FINALLY TONIGHT, A NEW STUDY FROM THE UW-MADISON RESEARCH ON THE WISCONSIN ECONOMY ASKS IS THE UW-MADISON IN DECLINE?

JOINING US NOW IS ANANTH SESHADRI.

RANKINGS OF PROGRAMS COMPARED TO OTHER UNIVERSITIES AND YOU'VE SHOWN A SIGNIFICANT DECLINE SINCE 2010.

HOW DO YOU COME TO THAT?

>> WE LOOK AT FOUR DIFFERENT MEASURES OF RANKINGS.

ONE IS THE COLLEGE RANKINGS OF UNDERGRADUATE PROGRAMS.

PROGRAMS, WE LOOK AT R&D, RESEARCH RANKINGS, HOW MUCH IN TERMS OF RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT, HOW MUCH MONEY DO WE BRING IN, MAINLY FROM THE GOVERNMENT, AND FINALLY, GLOBAL RANKINGS OF THE IN THE FIRST RANKING, WE FIND THAT IN TERMS OF AMERICA'S BEST CHALLENGES, WE CAUGHT UP WITH WHERE WE WERE A COUPLE OF DECADES AGO, AROUND 34, 35, YOU'RE BACK THERE.

SOME OF IT IS CHANGES IN THE METHODOLOGY AND SOME OF IT IS JUST ACTIVE INVESTMENTS ON THE PART OF UW-MADISON.

IN THE OTHER THREE DIMENSIONS, WE FIND THAT THEY'VE BASICALLY DECLINED.

MOST HAVE DECLINED OVER THE LAST DECADE OR SO.

TIMELINE.

2010 WAS WHEN SCOTT WALKER BECAME GOVERNOR, REPUBLICANS TOOK OVER THE LEGISLATURE, AND THEY STARTED ABOUT A DECADE-LONG PROCESS OF FORCING UW TO SPEND DOWN ITS RESERVES AND CUTTING -- FREEZING TUITION, CUTTING SPENDING.

CAUSATION LINING UP IN THOSE AREAS?

>> IT'S A BIT HARD TO SAY.

WE DON'T GET INTO THE DETAILS OF WHY THE RANKINGS FELL.

INTERESTINGLY, ONE OF OUR FOLLOW-UP PAPERS IS GOING TO ASK THE QUESTION, IS THE WISCONSIN TAXPAYER A LITTLE TOO STINGY WHEN IT COMES TO FUNDING UW-MADISON, AND WE'RE RIGHT THERE IN TERMS OF THE MEETING OF OUR PEERS.

FTE, WE'RE NOT THAT FAR OFF FROM OUR MEDIAN, SO I WOULD SAY THAT'S NOT A LOT OF EVIDENCE THAT THAT'S THE MAJOR CAUSE OF THE DECLINE.

OTHER ASPECTS, BOTH INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL THAT WE COULD ADDRESS IN ORDER TO BETTER SERVE BOTH THE STATE OF WISCONSIN AND OUR STUDENTS.

>> AND YOUR PAPER ALSO LOOKED AT THE RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT MONEY, AND UW USED TO BE SECOND IN THE NATION.

THEY'VE DROPPED TO EIGHTH.

A LOT OF THAT IS INDIVIDUAL PROFESSORS WHO WRITE SOME OF THOSE GRANTS AND BRING IN THE RESEARCH FOR THEIR PARTICULAR AREAS OF STUDY.

ONCE AGAIN, WE'VE SEEN A LOT OF I GUESS SO CALLED UNIVERSITY SUPERSTARS GET POACHED BY OTHER UNIVERSITIES.

PAY AND THE ENVIRONMENT AND REPLACING THEM FROM WITHIN, I GUESS?

>> SURE.

SO ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE NOT AS GOOD AT AS RELATIVE TO OUR PEERS IS OUR BIG GRANTS.

LIKE CHANCELLOR FOR RESEARCH ARE VERY FOCUSED ON TRYING TO GET INTO THESE MULTIDISCIPLINARY TEAMS IN GETTING 30 AND 50-MILLION-DOLLAR GRANTS FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.

ONE THING THAT WE'VE GOT TO BE BETTER AT IS TO BE NOR HIMMIBLE.

AN EXAMPLE, IN 2020, 2021, A.I.

WAS A BIG INITIATIVE.

SO ARE WE INVESTING IN A.I.

AND MOVING RESOURCES TO THE PRIORITY AREAS OF THE FEDERAL FUNDING AGENCY AS FAST AS OUR PEERS.

AND SO SOMETHING LIKE THAT WOULD REALLY HELP WITH SHORING UP OUR R&D FUNDING.

>> NO MATTER THE CAUSE OF THE DECLINE, YOUR PAPER LOOKED AT THE GLOBAL IMPACT.

I WANT YOU UH TO EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE HOW THESE RANKINGS DO MATTER FOR SOME COUNTRIES AND WHETHER SOME STUDENTS COME HERE.

>> INTERNATIONAL RANKINGS ARE VERY POPULAR.

STUDENTS ALL OVER THE WORLD LOOK AT THESE INTERNATIONAL RANKINGS OF WORLD UNIVERSITIES.

WE NOTE IN THE PAPER THAT IT ACTUALLY HAS BITE.

FOR INSTANCE, IN THE U.K. GARMENT, CHINESE GARMENT, GIVE PRIORITIES FOR STUDENTS WHO GRADUATE FROM A TOP 50 GLOBAL UNIVERSITY.

SO IT'S NOT JUST THE SIGNALING VALUE ASSOCIATED WITH THE RANKING, BUT IT ACTUALLY HAS REAL CONSEQUENCES.

>> SO DOES THAT MEAN WE COULD SEE FEWER FOREIGN STUDENTS ON CAMPUS?

SOURCE OF TUITION COMING IN.

>> RIGHT.

I THINK AS AN INSTITUTION, WE REMAIN AN EXCELLENT INSTITUTION.

SO BY NO MEANS IS THE REPORT TRYING TO SOUND ALARMIST BELLS, BUT I THINK IT'S MORE OF A CALL TO ARMS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ALLOCATE RESOURCES NIMBLY AND EFFICIENTLY.

AND, YES, I DO THINK WE WOULD SEE PRESSURE IN TERMS OF INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS, EXCELLENT INTERNATIONAL STUDENTS WHO WANT TO CHOOSE UW-MADISON AS A DESTINY, FAIRLY AS WE DECLINE IN THESE RANKINGS.

>> YOU SAY UW-MADISON WILL BENEFIT FROM A RENEWED COMMITMENT TO EXCELLENCE.

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, AND WITHOUT MORE FUNDING, HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN?

>> FUNDING IS A REALLY CRITICAL PART OF THE STORY.

SO I'LL GO BACK IN TERMS OF FUNDING AND SAY THAT IF YOU ASK THE QUESTION WHERE ARE WE AGAINST OUR PEERS, IT'S NOT STATE APPROPRIATIONS WHERE WE'RE VERY DIFFERENT THAN OUR PEERS.

IT'S UNDERGRADUATE IN-STATE TUITION.

LOT OF CONCERN WITH INCREASING TUITION, BUT UW-MADISON IS EXCELLENT IN ENSURING THAT THE STUDENTS GRADUATE DEBT-FREE.

SO AS A SOURCE OF REVENUE, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE STAND OUT RELATIVE TO OUR PEERS.

IN TERMS OF BEING NIMBLE, IN TERMS OF ALLOCATING RESOURCES, WHAT I HAD IN MIND IS THE FACT THAT OVER THE COURSE OF THE LAST FEW DECADES, STUDENT DEMAND HAS CHANGED.

MOST POPULAR MAJOR.

PRIORITIES OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS CHANGED.

IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO BOTH ENSURE THAT WE CATER TO THOSE STUDENTS AND TO THE NEW AREAS THAT ARE ESSENTIALLY BEING PRIORITY AREAS, THEN WE'VE GOT TO BE MOVING RESOURCES MUCH MORE NIMBLY THAN WE HAVE IN THE PAST.

>> WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE.

>> WE'LL LEAVE IT THERE.