from the 2024 ballot, as well as some# reflections on the past year in po we turn to Brooks and Capehart.

That's# New York Times columnist David Brooks,## and Jonathan Capehart, associate# editor for The Washington Post.

Good to see you both.

JONATH GEOF the second state to ban Donald Trump from# its presidential pri constitutional provision that prevents# insurrectionists from holding office.

David, what's your assessment of this# decision by Maine's secretary of state?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, I thought Colorado# was pretty terrible.

And I think this## is an even worse threat to democracy, some# Republican front-runner off the ballot for a# crime, as you said in one of your questions,## he's not even convicted of, he# hasn't even been charged with.

The process should always be, voters decide,# voters decide.

It should be we have an entire democratic system is under# a crisis of authority and people don't trust## it.

They think the game is rigged.

If# suddenly you have random people throwing## people off the ballot, they're going to# think, oh, the game really is An d then if you have one Democrat throwing# a candidate off the ball do you really think some Republicans aren't# going to start throwing people off the ballot## somewhere else?

It's just -- I just thought it# was every story that Donald Trump tells, which# is those liberal elites are out to get you.

And, suddenly -- I don't know if she's a liberal# elite, but somebody's out to silence your voice.

GEOFF BENNETT: Jonathan, what about that,## the argument that this is (LAUGHTER) JONATHAN CAPEHART: My gosh, David.

I don't buy it.

The idea that this is a# cabal of liberal eli going after Donald Trump, is ridiculous, one,# because these challenges are being brought## by Republicans.

There are Republicans# who are trying to keep Donald Trump off## the Republican primary ballot.

That# is definitely the case in Colorado.

And the same people who brought that case# are involved in all the other cases.

T other thing is that these aren't random# -- the Maine secretary of state is not some random official.

This is someone# who didn't just make up this decision## out of whole cloth.

She had a hearing# a week ago, an eight-hour-long hearing,## where she had all sorts of briefs, all sorts# of testimony, and she came to her decision.

The key thing here is that this case is# going to go before the Supreme Court,## because the one thing the Supreme Court does# not like is dissonance within the country.## You have got Colorado and Maine saying he's# got to be off the ballot.

You have Michigan,## and I believe today California said# Trump is on the ballot.

You can't## have a hodgepodge of decisions around the# country involving something this major.

So the Supreme Court is going to have to decide# this case.

And, as the Minnesota secretary of## state said to me last weekend, he sees the# Supreme Court deciding unanimously either## all states have to have him on the ballot or# all states have to have him off the ballot.

But there's not going to be# this split-the-baby decision.

GEOFF BENNETT: How do you think# the court might weigh this?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, we have an# is (LAUGHTER) (CROSSTALK) but I would be shocked if the Supreme Court took# Donald Trump's name off the ballot The last thing the court, which already# has its own credibility problems,## wants to do is be seen to tell 75 million# Americans, the guy you want to vo you can't vote for that guy.

That would create# some sort of democratic crisis in o GEOFF BENNETT: Jonathan, how much# weight do you give that question,## though, of why can one person,# in this case i determination for thousands of voters# as to Donald Trump's political future?

JONATHAN CAPEHART: Well, that's a matter# of state law.

I mean, elections -- the## rules in all these states, the reason why we're# having these hodgepodge -- de cisions is because elections are run by# the states, and they have their ow And, in Maine, the secretary of state# makes a determination and then it goes## to the courts.

So this is not the end in# Maine.

This is the beginning in Maine.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, as this decision# came down yesterday from Maine,## Nikki Haley was in New Hampshire,# Donald Trump's a trying to clean up a response she gave when# she was asked by a person at a town hall## you see there in New Hampshire about,# what was the cause of the Civil War?

And she did not name slavery in her response.

And,## after much backlash, she later said,# of course it had to do with slavery.

David, what did you make of her initial comment# and then her attempt to clean it up and clarify?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, Republican presidential# candidates should not be disagreeing with## Lincoln's second inaugural.

Lincoln# knew this was a war about slavery.

For 30 years, we had the war.

America# was split over slavery.

Then the war## happened.

It was about slavery.

Slavery# ended with the war.

I like Ron DeSantis'## line that the -- ending slavery was one of the# Republican Party's greatest accomplishments ever.

And so I think what was disturbing about# her comment was that it had the aroma of## somebody playing political# games from South Carolina,## that you have come from a state where a# lot of people don't want to about slavery.

They want to say it was# about random civil rig And then she had that voice in her head, and she# thought the politically calculated thing to do## was to give the answer she gave, rather than the# honest truth.

And that is a bad moment for her.

GEOFF BENNETT: Yes.

that they would object to her saying flatly and# plainly that, yes, it had to do with JONATHAN CAPEHART: Yes, I agree# with that.

And I agree with David.

The only thing I would say is that# it's not an ar (LAUGHTER) the first state to secede from the union which# was -- led to the Civil Wa a state that had a proclamation# in 1860 that said flat out,## we don't -- the non-enslaving states# are trying to make us give up slavery.

So, for her to do what she did, especially after# what she did after the massacre in Charleston at## Mother Emanuel, probably her biggest moment on# the national stage, and certainly as governor## of South Carolina, stepping up and being a# leader and taking down the Confederate Flag,## for her to backtrack like this, I shouldn't# be surprised, because she's backtracked on a## lot of statements of principle, especially# when she got in league with Donald Trump.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, Chris Christie# agrees with you.

Here's what he told## New Hampshire voters about this earlier this week.

FMR.

GOV.

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), Presidential# Candidate: She didn't say what she night and today about this because she's dumb.# And she didn't say it because she's a# racist, because she's not.

I know her well,## and I don't believe Nikki has a racist bone# in her body.

But for purposes of this race,## the reason she did it is just as bad, if not# worse, and should get everybody concerned## about her candidacy.

She did it because she's# unwilling to offend anyone by telling the truth.

GEOFF BENNETT: So, what about that?

I mean, he's# saying that she equivocates and pulls her punches## for political gain.

How damaging will something# like that be to her standing in New DAVID BROOKS: First, it's a lesson that young# viewers to major in history, because our first## two topics about the Insurrection Act and the# Civil Wa (CROSSTALK) (LAUGH DAVID GEOFF BENNETT: Yes.

DAVID BROOKS: I don't th New Hampshire, or say they're going to be voting# for New Hampshire are doing it as an an and maybe they kind of like her, and# maybe they will have a moment of pause.

And she got a lot of big bucks from a# lot of rich people.

And ma have a moment of pause.

But compared# to Donald Trump, stupid, in terrible comments will not be deterrents, because# Donald Trump produces those by the minute.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, on this final Friday of 2023,## I want to get your reflections on the Jonathan, you first.

JONATHAN CAPEH (LAUGHTER) and it's only going to get# bumpier, I think, in 2024.

We have got two huge constitutional questions# that are about to come before the Supreme Court,## one, ballot access, and the other one is# presidential immunity.

We have never been## in a situation where those -- where the Supreme# Court has had to even entertain these questions.

And the ramifications of that for the# 2024 election means that -- we say## this every four years.

This is the most# important election of our lifetime.

But,## quite honestly, 2024 could be# the most important election,## because it could be the last democratic, small-D# democratic, election this country ever has.

And that's the one thing that# gives me pause about 2024.

GEOFF BENNETT: David, how about you?

DAVID BROOKS: Yes, right now.

And, as Jonathan said, next# year is probably going to be worse.

But, to me, our national situation has been# salved, S-A-L-V-E-D, by the streng economy, by a lot of good things that# are happening underneath politics.

So,## economic growth is phenomenal right# now.

Unemployment is low.

Inflation## is down.

Income inequality is down.# Wages are up.

Real wages are up.

And so if -- it was not predicted that we# would reduce this inflation without sliding## into recession, and we seem to be doing it.# And if we had not, if we had just fallen into## 7 percent unemployment, 10 percent, can# you imagine where the country would be?

So, just to pay tribute maybe to the Fed or... (LAUGHTER) And the best thing is, America is Japan, China now.

And so there are underlying# good forces in America that were all wounded by## how Donald Trump wants us to feel every# day.

But there's a lot of good coming,## including, except for in Washington, D.C.,# really rapidly decreasing crim And so there's just a lot of decent# fundamentals in this society.

GEOFF BENNETT: Well, we will# end on that hopeful note.

(LAUGHTER) GEOFF BENNETT: David Brook thanks for an incredible year, an JONATHAN CAPEHART: Thanks, Geoff.

Yes.

DAVID BROOKS: We will here.

GEOFF BENNETT: JONA