THE STREETS OR THE SKYWAYS OF DOWNTOWN ST. PAUL LATELY, IT'S LIKELY THAT YOU'VE FELT A LITTLE LONELY.

STREET LIFE, WHICH WASN'T EXACTLY ROBUST BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, IS EVEN QUIETER NOW.

A NEW STUDY, COMMISSIONED BY THE NONPROFIT ST. PAUL DOWNTOWN ALLIANCE, OFFERS SOME IDEAS FOR HOW TO CREATE A MORE VIBRANT ATMOSPHERE IN THE CITY.

HERE TO LEND HIS EXPERTISE TO PARSING THROUGH THE STUDY IS BILL LINDEKE, A LECTURER IN URBAN STUDIES AT THE UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA AND A COLUMNIST AT MINNPOST.

OH, MY GOODNESS, THERE'S A LOT HERE.

SO IT SOUNDS LIKE AMONG THE THINGS THAT THIS STUDY LOOKS AT, SKYWAYS ARE A PROBLEM.

REALLY?

PEOPLE LOVE SKYWAYS, COULDN'T THEY -- DON'T THEY?

>> IN THE WINTER THEY SURE DO.

THE PROBLEM IS, THERE'S NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE DOWNTOWN COMPARED TO WHAT THEY WERE.

YOU JUST MENTIONED THE FOUR-YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF THE PANDEMIC.

THE ONE THING THAT HAPPENED RIGHT AWAY WITH THAT, EVERYBODY STOPPED GOING TO WORK.

DOWNTOWNS ACROSS THE COUNTRY HAVEN'T BEEN THE SAME SINCE.

AND DOWNTOWN St. PAUL IS KIND OF St. PAUL TO BEGIN WITH.

AND THERE WEREN'T A LOT OF JOBS HERE EVEN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC.

AND THERE ARE FEWER NOW.

BUT THE REAL PROBLEM IS, THOSE 30,000 JOBS THAT EXIST DOWNTOWN, THERE'S NOT -- THE PEOPLE AREN'T EVEN THERE.

THEY'RE AT HOME, THEY'RE WORKING IN THEIR LIVING ROOM OR AT A COFFEE SHOP.

BUT WHEN YOU ACTUALLY LOOK AT HOW MANY PEOPLE THAT USED TO BE DOWNTOWN EVERY DAY ARE THERE TODAY, IT'S PRETTY DESERTED.

>> Eric: HOW DO YOU MAKE THE DOWNTOWN MORE FRIENDLY TO PEDESTRIANS?

>> WELL, THAT'S THE INTERESTING THING ABOUT THIS STUDY.

IT REALLY FOCUSED ON WHAT THEY CALLED THE PUBLIC REALM.

SO YOU PROBABLY KNOW, BECAUSE YOU'RE DOWN HERE ALL THE TIME, TOO, THERE'S SOME WONDERFUL PARKS AND SPOTS IN DOWNTOWN St. PAUL THAT HAVE A LOT OF RESTAURANTS, A LOT OF HISTORIC BUILDINGS, A LOT OF REALLY QUALITY SPACES, PUBLIC SPACES.

BUT THEY'RE NOT CONNECTED VERY WELL TO EACH OTHER.

AND THAT'S THE NUMBER ONE SUGGESTION THAT THIS REPORT CAME OUT WITH.

THEY SAID THAT WE NEED TO INVEST IN MAKING THE STREETS AND SIDEWALKS ON THE PUBLIC REALM MUCH ETTER, ESPECIALLY EAST/WEST FROM MERES PARK TO RICE PARK.

WE'RE GOING TO SEE SOME PHOTOGRAPHS, THIS IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE NOW AND THEN, OF COURSE, THIS PARTICULAR STUDY IS LOOKING AT WHAT IT MIGHT LOOK LIKE WITH THE WIDER SIDEWALKS AND TREES.

AND THAT KIND OF THING.

I'M WONDERING, TOWN SQUARE, USED TO BE KIND OF A COOL SPOT.

AND THEN IT'S JUST EMPTY.

I MEAN, THERE'S JUST NOTHING THERE.

IT'S JUST A BIG HOLE, REALLY.

THIS IS AN INTERESTING STUDY BECAUSE IT SUGGESTED JUST TO BLOW A HOLE IN IT.

IS THAT WHAT I'M -- WHAT I SAW?

>> IT'S A GREAT EXAMPLE.

I REMEMBER TOWN SQUARE BEING A LITTLE KID, IT WAS 1980s URBAN MALL, NEXT BIG THING.

CITIES' DOWNTOWN WERE CHASING THE SUBURBAN MALL SHOPPER, HOW CAN THEY BRING THEM DOWNTOWN?

>> Eric: WITH THE CAROUSEL.

>> I REMEMBER RIDING IT ON IT.

THERE WERE TREES UP IN THE SKY WE -- SKYWAY.

THAT WASN'T A GOOD IDEA.

DOWNTOWNS THRIVE ON DENSITY, DIVERSITY, HAVING A LOT OF PEOPLE ON THE SIDEWALKS, WITH A LOT OF SHOPS TO GO AND SEE.

RIGHT NOW TOWN SQUARE IS SMACK IN BETWEEN TWO REALLY NICE STREETS, 7th PLACE IS WHAT IT'S CALLED, SPOTS THAT COULD BE CONNECTED EAST/WEST THROUGH THE CITY, WITH LOW TRAFFIC AND PEDESTRIAN ORIENTATION, BUT THERE'S A GIANT CONCRETE BUILDING RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE.

SO I THINK THAT'S AN INTERESTING IDEA.

>> Eric: WHAT'S A PRIORITY DISTRICT?

>> WELL, THE STUDY LOOKED AT WHERE PEOPLE EXTEND A -- SPEND A LOT OF TIME DOWNTOWN.

IT TURNED OUT, THEY LIKE ENTERTAINMENT RIGHT NOW.

THAT'S WHAT BRINGS PEOPLE TO DOWNTOWN LIKE St. PAUL.

SO THE XCEL ENERGY CENTER, THE ORDWAY, A NUMBER OF OTHER THEATERS, LIKE THAT, PEOPLE LINGER FOR HOURS IN THAT PART OF THE CITY.

SO THE STUDY IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT, HOW AN WE GET FOLKS TO TAKE A LITTLE STROLL AFR YOU -- AFTER YOU GO SEE A PLAY OR BEFORE THE CONCERT, WANDER THROUGH, VITALIZE THE REST OF THE CITY, TOO.

>> Cathy: WHAT ARE WE LEARNING FROM POST PANDEMIC DOWNTOWNS, YOU KIND OF SET THE STAGE EARLY IN THE CONVERSATION.

THERE'S NOT REALLY A LOT HAPPENING IN SOME OF THE DOWNTOWN AREAS.

WHAT ARE WE LEARNING, THOUGH, SINCE THE PANDEMIC HAS EASED UP A LITTLE BIT?

>> THE BIG TAKEAWAY IS THAT TRYING TO GET EVERYBODY, THIS DOWNTOWN CENTRAL BUSINESS DISTRICT CORE WHERE IT'S JUST OFFICE BUILDINGS WASN'T A GREAT IDEA.

YOU NEED A LOT OF DIVERSITY IN A DOWNTOWN, YOU NEED TO HAVE A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, PEOPLE LIVING THERE THAT ARE THERE 24/7, NOT UST 9:00 TO 5:00.

SO THAT'S ONE OF THE PLANS, TOO.

TO TRY TO TAKE OLDER OFFICE BUILDINGS, ONES THAT MAYBE ARE -- THEY CALL IT CLASS B, CLASS C OFFICE BUILDINGS AND SEE IF YOU CAN TURN THOSE INTO APARTMENTS AND BRING MORE PEOPLE BACK TO THE CITY.

>> Cathy: OF COURSE, YOU'D HAVE TO HAVE AMENITIES LIKE GROCERY STORES, THAT KIND OF THING.

>> YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE GROCERY STORES.

>> Cathy: RIGHT.

>> Eric: AND THE WALKWAY DOWN THE BLUFF OF THE MISSISSIPPI.

>> YEAH, THAT'S THE OTHER THING I HAVEN'T MENTIONED IS THE RIVER.

RIVERS USED TO BE INDUSTRIAL.

St. PAUL'S DOWNTOWN RIVER ACTUALLY STILL HAS BARGES ON IT A LOT OF THE TIME.

BUT IT'S ALSO A BEAUTIFUL PLACE TO HANG OUT.

AND CURRENTLY OUR RIVER S DOMINATED BY RAILROAD AND A VERY LARGE WIDE EMPTY ROAD THAT THERE COULD BE A WAY TO MAKE A PARK TO GET PEOPLE DOWN TO AND FROM THE RIVER.

THAT WOULD BE A GAME CHANGER.

>> Eric: WELL, WE'LL SEE HOW THIS AFFECTS THE PLANNING GOING FORWARD.

>> I THINK THE BEST THINGS THAT IT GIVES YOU CLEAR