- [Narrator] Live from your public media studios WVIA presents Keystone Edition Arts a public affairs program that goes beyond the headlines to address issues in Northeastern and Central Pennsylvania.

This is Keystone Edition Arts, and now Erica Funke.

- Welcome to Keystone Edition Arts and a special program titled Jazz and the Generations.

as WVIA continues to celebrate Jazz Appreciation Month.

We've assembled an all-star trio of guests and you're invited to sit in by calling 1-800-326-9842 or sending an email to keystone@wvia.org or on social media at #keystonearts.

To open Paul Azar introduces us to a new generation of jazz musicians.

(jazz music) - [Paul Azar] Young musicians can learn about jazz through formal education and their own personal exploration.

The Chiaroscuro Jazz Conservancy provided another option for high school musicians in the Central Susquehanna Valley.

George Graham, director of Artistry and Repertoire for Chiaroscuro records described the Conservancy as a way to provide hands-on masterclasses for aspiring musicians and helping to pass the jazz tradition to a new generation.

Thanks to a grant from the Degenstein Foundation high school students from six schools visited the WVIA studios for a full-day session with experienced musicians who provided lessons and suggestions and played alongside the young musicians.

The day culminated in a concert featuring all of the musicians.

Todd Kendall, director of bands for Williamsport Area High School, described the opportunity for the students to play with the teaching musicians as, "One that goes from being academic to being real."

Musicians who shared their wealth of jazz knowledge include: Larry Marshall, Virginia Mayhew, and Su Terry.

Grammy winning drummer, Bill Goodwin, another of the Conservancy teachers was happy to be involved since he benefited from what he learned from older drummers who took him under their wing and said that he doesn't think the music will ever die as long as we keep passing it on.

For Keystone Edition Arts I'm Paul Azar.

- Thanks, Paul.

It's probably safe to say that these young players are entering a world that's very different from the one our three guests moved into when they were the same age and a very different jazz scene.

On the show we'll be exploring what's the same and what's changed over time not just to understand more about the music, and hear some great stories, but we'll likely learn something about changes in America along the way.

You're welcome to take part by calling 1-800-326-9842, by sending an email to keystone@wvia.org or on social media at #keystonearts.

Now, here's what the National Endowment for the Arts says: "The NEA Jazz Masters Award is the highest honor that our nation bestows on jazz artists each year since 1982 the program has elevated to its rank, a select number of living legends who have made exceptional contributions to the advancement of jazz."

David Liebman, saxophonist, band leader composer, and educator has received the highest honor the US bestows on jazz artists.

He is an NEA Jazz Master.

In the early days he played with the Elvin Jones and the Miles Davis groups and he's created so much important music that it's dizzying.

We hope he'll talk with us about his continual searching, his constant discoveries not just about music, but about people too.

Nancy Reed has been performing as a singer, bassist, and guitarist for well over four decades.

On the local, national, and international jazz scenes known for her smooth and swinging style.

(soft jazz playing) Nancy has recorded over 13 albums including two with Duke Ellington's grandson Edward Ellington II, and the Ellington Legacy Band.

She's blessed with a gorgeous tone and pitch, impeccable rhythm, and an instinct for true jazz phrasing.

That's just the start of the praise she's received over the years.

And Joseph Boga, trumpeter, composer, arranger, leader of small groups and educator.

He grew up in Scranton, but he's in New York now.

He's a 2014 graduate of the Juilliard School where he received the Billy Strayhorn scholarship.

He's been a protege of Wynton Marsalis since he was a teenager and he plays with a host of bands including Vince Giordano and the Nighthawks the group you hear with him on the hit show The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel.

Welcome to you all.

We know the great Ellington tune "I'm beginning to see the light."

Dave, you have a story you tell that you call Seeing the Light about epiphanies.

The spark that may become a four-alarm fire as the song goes.

Tell us what happened to you at Birdland way back then?

- Well, there was a Saturday in February of 1962, and I had a lady friend.

We went to Mamma Leone's for dinner and then we went to Birdland which I had attended early a couple of weeks before for the first time with some of the guys from the dance band at school.

And I didn't know much at that time.

So when we pulled up or got out, got a taxi, I saw the placard and it was John Coltrane Quintet and the Bill Evans Trio.

I had no idea what was going on, but to put it short it changed my life that night because Coltrane was leading light of the generation.

And I got to see him many times and of course got to work with his bass player, Jimmy Garrison.

I played with all of them, McCoy Tiner.

And of course, Elvin Jones.

But the epiphany is something awakes and awakens in you an interest, don't let it go, because it doesn't happen every day.

- [Erika Funke] Yeah.

Yeah.

And you have used in your, in your talk, that you present online, the word honesty honest playing from the Coltrane ensemble that night.

That just (emphatic click) - You got you got it right.

It was honesty and sincerity.

No show.

It was beyond the show.

I mean, they didn't talk to the audience or kibitz around and everything was just (smooth jazz) they would just...

Realize they could play very intensely very, very intensely, (inaudible) you know?

- [Erika Funke] Yeah, exactly.

From right here where we are right now.

Nancy, I wonder if you've ever sung "I'm beginning to see the light."

- Absolutely.

Yeah, - Yeah you would.

I wanted to ask you about, about singing in the kind of a moment that we're talking about with Dave.

You used a good phrase.

When you talk about singing, you you call it real jazz singing.

What is it that's set you on fire?

When, when you hear someone who's a real jazz singer?

- Well, you know that they're thinking about what they're going to sing right now.

It's doesn't have to do with, well, I've rehearsed it this way.

So I better sing it that same way.

You're watching somebody getting inspired at the at the moment.

And that's what that, I think that's what makes it real.

- [Erika Funke] Yeah.

And that's something that you, every time you open you're in front of a microphone or on a band stand or in a recording studio, that's the that's the be there now, right?

To be present.

- That's the goal.

I mean, of course things happen.

There's a noise in the corner.

People are talking something, you know, can distract you.

But then the goal is to get back on it and think about what you're singing and playing (crooning jazz) - [Erika Funke] Now Joseph, how is it possible that a tune named Potato Head Blues can change a life?

But it did for you.

Tell us what happened with potato head.

- Sure.

Yeah.

So I guess this is shortly after I started learning the trumpet in fifth grade, my parents bought me a CD for Christmas as a stocking stuffer.

That was like a compilation Louis Armstrong album.

And I wasn't really interested in jazz.

I didn't really know what it was.

I had only just started playing the trumpet.

So I, it was just sat on my desk for a couple months.

And I started to feel guilty because I was like, Oh, my parents are gonna think I'm ungrateful for the gift they got me.

So then I opened it out of its shrink wrap.

And then I was like, Oh, well I better at least listen to it.

Otherwise I'm kind of lying, pretending like I listened to it.

So I put it on.

And the first tune that came up was Potato Head Blues.

And from the first like chorus of the song Louis Armstrong's voice and playing on his instrument the tone, the rhythm, all of it got me.

And I listened every night to that CD to go to bed after that.

So.

- So again that stays with you as a touchstone.

- Absolutely.

Yeah.

- Yeah.

So there you all are set ablaze by this music called jazz but still you have to find your own voice, your own way of connecting with other musicians, and listeners, with what's ever inside you and you'll simply learn to play.

So we're talking about education formal and informal.

What do you do?

The and now Dave, what, what, you're an educator now.

You were learning then.

What are?

What's what's changed?

- Well, you can get it from a to z now at school, it's very organized.

There's there's little, little space for playing playing around with me.

And if you want to get it from school you can.

Of course, the university of the streets which it was known for before you had to go.

We learned by trial and error, repetition, cheating a little bit.

Looking at fingerings.

That's what he was using.

And et cetera, et cetera.

And its advantages and disadvantages of both, as we discussed here before.

(smooth jazz music playing) One thing's for sure we have a generation that's earning their living by teaching.

So that's one practical aspect that should that should be mentioned.

- [Erika Funke] Yeah, yeah.

- [David Liebman] Because that did not exist before the 1960s.

You know, it was more, they didn't the older musicians didn't like to talk about yer music.

Let alone Jazz.

They didn't or they couldn't or they wouldn't.

I, I think a combination of all of those things.

- Wow.

Wow.

And, and Nancy, we learned that your mother was an opera singer and we know that opera Arias tell stories and they're full of emotion.

Is that how you learn something about the importance of meaning and feeling what you're singing?

Is that that kind of where you're listening to another musician and learning?

- Well, those weren't the words that I heard.

It was when my mother each year she would take me to the Met.

I mean, it was a few dollars I'm sure but we went to the Met and it wasn't so much the words but in that instance it was the music.

And then my mother would explain to me later what it meant, because, of course, it was in a different language most of the time.

So, but my father was a jazz pianist.

His name was Marcus Wilbon.

And he was a wonderful player.

He used to sit in at Minton's and every night of my life he came home right after work and played.

And then my mother sang to us at bedtime.

In fact, we harmonized, me and my brother and her and that was part of a the bedtime ritual.

So, and we talked about words in, in tunes, different tunes.

But I, to me, I had it all.

I had the best.

- And, and Joseph, you've had a terrific set of mentors.

You've a graduate of Julliard school as we heard.

And we were just hearing what you said, Dave, about the university of the streets.

How have you navigated that balance between the academic studies of jazz and just sitting in?

- Sure.

Yeah.

I would say school is great.

It definitely gives a lot of opportunities.

The things I've benefited probably the most from in terms of school was like my private teacher Mark Gould, and Chris Jaudes and Joe Magnarelli.

And then just being around other kids my age and getting to exchange my ideas, talk about records, play with them.

But I do, I have to agree with Dave.

There's nothing quite like the school of hard knocks or, you know, real experience.

I owe so much to Vince Giordano.

Playing with him, learning from him going and checking out his band every week and getting to play in it.

And him telling me what to do to sound better.

You know, when, when money's on the line when your livelihood's on the line, there's a way of learning a lot quicker, I think, than, I mean things can be beneficial both ways, but I'm very fortunate for like my personal mentorships I've had because I think that's what I've gained the most out of in terms of that.

- [Erika Funke] Yeah.

Yeah.

And we want to stay with you because you are a young musician.

You're in New York you're trying to make your living doing it.

And this pandemic aside, technology has changed so much.

And Dave, we know you've explored the music of Sidney Bechet and Sidney Bechet was exploring some technological innovations in his, in his day.

But Joseph, what's happening in New York now?

How have things changed even since you were starting at Juilliard?

What's going on with social media and jazz?

- Sure.

Yeah.

I would say the internet is definitely the name of the game.

I've learned that very quickly, especially with all the pandemic stuff going on, but you know at the same time, everybody's playing out in the park people are playing, just busking.

(jazz playing) Jeremy Pelt's playing across the park from me, you know, there's all sorts of people.

And just trying to keep the music alive.

I think in a lot of ways it's gotten people back to their roots in that music is about connecting with people and making that personal connection.

Not only with your band mates but with the people listening.

So yeah.

People are keeping things going here.

- [Erika Funke] Yeah.

Nancy, you and Spencer have been teaching right?

By, by, through the internet?

- Oh, Yeah.

and outside when it's warm enough, they come over and we sit outside.

That's the way it has to be.

It's not easy as you know, with the delay and everything, but we get it done.

- [Erika Funke] Yeah.

And Dave, how about you and the new media, the internet and stuff, has that affected what you're doing?

Not just pandemic-wise, but in general - [David Liebman] Well, you get a chance to meet people you would probably never have met, and not at the same time either.

So there's an immediacy about it.

I can't get used to the fact that it's a piece of it looks like now it's glass between me and me and me.

But I mean, it's mind boggling what they can do.

And like Joe says, I mean there's nothing like the personal touch and that is a one-to-one relationship, regardless of where you went to school, or didn't go to school.

And when people ask, when you ask about a musician, you go, can he or she play?

And what's he like?

Or what's she like?

I mean, that's two things, (muffled) And then really he can play.

And what are they like as a person?

They're cool, you say they're cool, that takes care of a universe of having to check it out because you trust your friend to lead you to the right person.

- [Erika Funke] Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you've just told us, Joseph that you were playing with Vince Giordano and you play with a lot of traditional groups.

And Nancy, we've said that you play with the Ellington you've played with the Ellington legacy band.

And you're trying to keep the tradition of Duke's music alive and fresh in the but fresh in the 21st century.

And I should probably ask you this question, Dave, because you've been honored for making exceptional contributions to the advancement of jazz.

And when you go online and you say, well let's Google Dave Liebman.

And then it'll say: "Styles in which he plays."

And then the list goes down longer than my arm about all the things that you explore and so forth.

But there has been that old slogan and it's applies to all the arts, I think, but but one of the places that it, it has cropped up in in years past is the, make it new slogan.

You know, when we talk about jazz what's that meant over the years when when maybe there's a political edge or something let's make it new as a political statement?

But it seems to me that all of you are, are you are all improv, improv, you do improvisation and you're there in the moment.

And it's got to be new in the moment because you're listening and you're taking in what's coming and that's got to be new.

So Dave start with, with "Make it new."

What is, what have you seen?

What does that mean?

- Well, I don't know about new, but you know, jazz musicians are certain certain MO, modus operandi, very straight and very honest and often hooked up with causes.

And that's what I think we're leaning towards.

And now there's certainly a lot of causes to go around the block with this because it.

Music is very serious that we take that we play.

We take it very seriously.

And if you're that kind of person you are going to be satellite type of person you're going to be all over the place.

I had the sixties to take care of me.

- [Erika Funke] Yeah - Sixties was a lesson in itself, you know, but but I did try to bring it to the music and it might be one tune.

It might be a particular recording but we try to make it of this world and not of another world, because we want to communicate, you know.

And I don't communicate with everybody, every Tom, Dick and Harry in the world but for those who are interested, and I think I think it's a privilege to know about jazz, you're you're in somebody's living room with the greatest musicians in the world and what could be better?

- [Erika Funke] Joseph?

You're nod, you're nodding.

So you wha?

What do you, what were you hearing there that Dave said that made sense?

- Sure.

Yeah.

I really agree.

I think it's all about like, bringing it to life, the music.

So whether you're playing more modern music or a more modern style, or you're playing music from the 1920s.

Music really is a language just like language, it's just sound right?

And we communicate feelings and thoughts all through just the way we manipulate sound.

And I think if you're coming from a very honest place you listen, you connect with different styles of music.

So for me, I connect with music of the 1920s and '30s and there are certain emotions and perspectives coming from those musicians when you listen to them.

And I try to accurately portray those feelings that I also have through that music.

And I think whether you're playing modern jazz or you're playing old jazz, like it's all about that honesty of feeling and communication - And Nancy, you said it so well when you were talking about what real jazz singing is for you that you are present there and maybe there's that noise in the corner, but you are really centered in that moment.

So for you, is that what, what making it new might mean?

- Yeah.

And, you know, I think people need music now a lot.

People really need it.

And maybe it's the time to listen to something different, you know.

(Nancy singing) That was a long time ago.

(laughter) A long time ago.

So I, I think of my mother's opera and drama, and yet and my father's kind of low-key dramatic in its own way piano playing.

And I don't know, I guess I put those two together since I've heard it every day.

Just about every day.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

We were talking about technology and the internet and social media and all of that.

And Dave, you were saying that there are you're meeting people around the world whom you might not have met.

So in a sense, there's not a we're not geo centric, geocentric but New York is still an important place for, for jazz.

But what's so unusual about our region is that you have that jazz community at Delaware Water Gap that has attracted musicians whether it be because it's easy to drive into New York and get gigs and then come back and be in a beautiful place.

But it's, is that something in, in your experience that that is unusual to have a place like Delaware Water Gap where you're all just neighbors - It's re... it's amazingly different.

I mean, you'd be hard pressed to find outside of a major city that you would think it could happen but you'd be hard pressed to find such an activity as we have had.

And since I've been here 35 years, I mean, it's unbelievable.

And the kind of energy and when people, how people relate.

And of course the audience comes and, you know, they had a festival once a year.

I mean, everything is on hold now for obvious reasons, but it's, it it really couldn't be a better thing.

You got, as you said, you can drive in and do your thing and get back, stay awake.

(laughter) It's a challenge in itself.

And you, you know, yeah.

And you have, you wake up to trees, not a bad combination.

- And Nancy, you are head-over-heels about the, the historic Deer Head - The Deer Head Inn.

- Tell us about it, cause people might not know about it.

Tell us what it is.

- Well, I hope more people are gonna know about it and go to the Deer Head Inn.

It's, it's, they say the oldest jazz club in America, I'd be hard pressed to argue with that.

It's, it's a wonderful place.

It's just filled with love.

And as evidenced by look Dave Liebman asked me to be on an album with him.

It's a wonderful thing.

I'm thrilled by that, by the way.

And I want to get that in one more time.

And I know I say it to him every time I see him, but I, I'm I just can't get over it.

And you know, every time I hear it, it's a love thing.

The Delaware Water Gap, is it's a love thing with the festival and the people at the Deer Head.

I dunno, how lucky am I?

That's what I say.

- And Joseph, you're a younger generation and we're talking about jazz and the generations but you've plugged into the celebration of the arts and what kinds of expier... you've composed for COTA and the festival in September.

So what does that experience add into the mix of your learning and developing?

- It really is a special place there.

You know, I was just very fortunate people like David and Nancy, and like I got to play in Phil Wood's band at the Deer Head sometimes.

And Rick Chamberlain all those guys like wonderful players, wonderful musicians.

And yeah, it was a real honor to be a part of that.

And to be in the COTA Cats and to maintain those types of connections.

It really is unique to have that that wealth of musical knowledge and passion in a place.

- I want to just tell a story about Phil Woods and this is decades ago but I had a chance to interview Phil Woods.

And he's the great alto saxophonist and he a resident of, of the Gap.

And what he said when we were talking about jazz education, he said, "Oh, if I had something to say about jazz education here's what I'd add."

And he said, he'd get a bus and he'd black out the windows.

And he'd load the kids on the bus and he'd drive them around the parking lot.

He'd unload the bus have 'em go into the auditorium, set up, play take down the music stands, put their music together get back on the bus, drive around the parking lot.

Do it again and do it again.

He said that's what's missing from jazz education.

So that was then, right?

Does that sound like Phil?

(laughter) - Definitely.

- Yeah.

- It's a tough sell.

(laughter) - That's great.

But it's different now.

I mean, Joseph, you go from you go from venue to venue in New York but you're not touring with bands in buses, are you?

- You know, occasionally, you know, but not for like long stints like they used to back in the day, like, Oh yeah like a month long, two month long bus tour.

Like, not quite like that, maybe maybe a week.

Something like that to go out or flying a lot of places.

But yeah, it's, it's not quite the same thing with like the same band of the same people for months on end.

You know, that seems like a totally different experience from at least what I am.

- Jazz and the jet generations.

Well, it's significant that each of you used similar words and you used them here tonight.

Dave, you were talking about the honesty of the Coltrane performance that you heard at Birdland and Nancy, we were talking with you about the real jazz singer and Joseph, we were talking about what Potato Head Blues and the genuine, the really genuine music you heard when Louis Armstrong was playing there.

So I don't know whether you'd all go thumbs up but one of the things we might leave with the young musicians whom we saw at the start is the slogan, Not maybe, make it new, but make it honest, make it genuine make it real thumbs up.

- Oh yeah.

- Okay, great.

Thank you all.

And I want to thank you all Dave Liebman, Nancy Reed, Joseph Boga, and you for watching and very special thanks to WVIA's producer and host George Graham.

Who's been a champion of the art of jazz for nearly 50 years here at WVIA.

For more information on this topic including links to our guests and resources visit wvia.org/keystone and click on Keystone Edition Arts.

And remember, you can watch this episode or any previous episode on demand online, anytime on the WVIA app.

And we take it out with a performance by the Dave Liebman group from a 2010 homegrown music concert recorded at the WVIA studios.

(soft jazz music) (applause)