- [Announcer] Live from your public media studios, WVIA presents "Keystone Edition Business," a public affairs program that goes beyond the headlines to address issues in Northeastern and Central Pennsylvania.

This is "Keystone Edition Business."

And now, moderator Steve Stumbris.

(upbeat music) - Hi, I'm Steve Stumbris.

It wasn't that long ago that you could stroll through the downtown of most communities and stop in at any number of locally owned stores along the way.

As time moved on, these bustling main streets gave way to big box stores, chains, and online shopping, and downtowns were filled with empty storefronts.

Now, communities nationwide are seeing a renaissance, including right here in our area.

But how does a community bring back its downtown?

That's what we are here to answer.

If you have questions, you can email us at keystone@wvia.org or tag us on social with the #keystonebusiness.

But first, Paul Lazar introduces us to a few key programs that are helping communities rebuild and thrive.

(swooshing) - [Paul] People want walkable cities, and their desire is spurring new restaurants, shops, and other businesses.

Groups like Main Street America, PA Downtown Center, and Smart Growth America are here to help communities bring back their downtowns.

Smart Growth America has a seven step process that outlines how a community can start rebuilding.

Their approach is not only for downtowns.

It also applies to shuttered shopping centers, idle industrial parks, and other disused facilities.

Main Street America is a program under the National Main Street Center dedicated to revitalizing older and historic commercial districts.

In the last year, it has rehabbed more than 10,000 buildings and created 30,000 jobs nationwide.

Pennsylvania Downtown Center is partnering with Main Street America to rebuild communities like Honesdale and Wilkes-Barre.

With all the competition, why revitalize a downtown?

Here are just some of the benefits.

A busy downtown can increase the tax base, create jobs, and draw investors.

Some of the less obvious benefits include rehabbing and filling empty buildings and increased community involvement and pride.

For more information on Pennsylvania Downtown Center, Main Street America, and Smart Growth America visit wvia.org.

For "Keystone Edition Business," I'm Paul Lazar.

(light upbeat music) - Good evening, I'd like to introduce our panelists, here to offer their expertise on bringing back a downtown.

Betsy Kramer is the Revitalization Coordinator for the Community Services Division at SEDA Council of Governments.

Michael Lombardo is the mayor of Pittston, and has been instrumental in downtown development there.

Julie Fitzpatrick is the Executive Director of Pennsylvania Downtown Center.

Thank you for joining us, everyone.

I'm really looking forward to this conversation.

Making over Main Street is a great topic, and I've really been looking forward to this one.

Downtowns and locally owned small businesses are near and dear to my heart.

Now, as we heard from Paul Lazar, Julie, I'd like to start out with you.

He referenced specifically the Pennsylvania Downtown Center.

Can you expand on some of those themes that he touched on?

Why is it important to revitalize our downtowns?

And tell us about your role with the PDC.

- Sure.

So the Pennsylvania Downtown Center has been around since 1987.

We just celebrated our 35th anniversary.

And we are really there to be the partner with the nonprofits and the local governments in downtowns.

We also work in the neighborhood districts as well.

It is about partnership.

And I know we're gonna be talking about partnerships throughout this evening.

But the partnerships that we have are at the state with the Department of Community and Economic Development.

And then also, as was mentioned earlier, the National Main Street Center, which actually came from the Historic Trust for historic places.

And so it is truly important because it is gonna really help a community highlight the best qualities that they have to offer, so they can be the best version of themselves, not someone else.

And so this is really looking at asset based, but market driven.

Trying to figure out what's next for those businesses and for the community.

And I think the quality of life component is truly important.

We talk about the economics and remaining viable, but we also wanna have great places to live and great places to raise a family and start a business.

And a lot of this is possible with Main Street.

- I understand that the Main Street model, it does build on that preservation, that respect for the history of a region, of a community, but it brings in additional topics, additional strategies, that complement that preservation.

- [Julie] Sure.

- What else is there.

- We look at it as economic development through historic preservation.

So this really is about these working in authentic communities.

But we're also looking at what's next from an economic perspective, not just recognizing the past, of the history, and the nostalgia of what downtowns used to be for many of us, but also looking forward of what's in the stars for us?

What is it that we wanna do in our own community to either draw from the past or pull from the future?

So that part is really crucial.

We're looking at business retention and business recruitment.

Also special events and retail events, trying to bring more people downtown, but also more dollars into those businesses to show that local investment and the importance of that.

- I heard Paul talking about that, jobs and investments, attracting that, and attracting that excitement to a downtown and having community involvement.

- Yeah, I think depending on our age, we might have those connections to downtown from when we were children.

But with some of our younger generations, they might not have that same kind of nostalgic connection.

And so we're also looking at creating more places that are walkable, and third places, places that people wanna gather, meet up with new friends or old friends and really, again, create that sense of community.

- That's great.

You also spoke of community leaders being involved.

And we have with us tonight, of course, a community leader, Mayor Mike Lombardo.

So Mike, I wanna ask you about why is it important for elected officials, as well as other leaders in their community, to be involved in these efforts to revitalize downtown?

- Well, I mean, I think the first thing is that main street is the front door to most of our communities.

It's the piece that many people entering into our communities see.

So obviously the first impression is very important of what the downtown looks like.

But then from an economic standpoint, a lot of our valuable real estate, which for an elected official, we talk about taxes and things all the time.

It's certainly a revenue center at the downtown.

So if you have an unhealthy downtown, you most likely have a municipality that could be struggling on the economic side.

But in the downtown, it's certainly need driven as well.

I mean, there are services and businesses and restaurants, all of those things down there that are critical.

So it really is an essential piece that elected officials need to be part of and need to be focused on.

And I always say if something's important, then you ought to make it part of a plan and invest in it.

- What are some other leaders, other than an elected official?

Who else arises from a community to be involved there, Mike?

- Well, there's obviously a direct partnership with the businesses in our communities and the regional businesses that participate.

But through programs that like Julie oversees, we have our Main Street Manager, who is really the critical link to the downtown and the center.

And then we have other departments within the city, like community development and the redevelopment authority that have direct implications on what happens.

And obviously you need to have a city council.

I mean, a mayor can't function without a supportive city council.

- Great, so that partnership has to be robust.

There's a diverse array of organizations and individuals that are involved.

Now Betsy, I'd like to turn to you and ask you to build on that.

I know of your work in the Shamokin area.

- Yep.

- The partnerships that, well, we enjoy in serving individuals, serving that community.

Can you build on that?

Why is a partnership important?

- Sure.

- In downtown.

- So my history is actually with entrepreneurship.

I had my own business for 12 years.

I was a product of the Bucknell SPDC.

Thank you very much.

- [Steve] Thank you, Betsy.

- And so when I actually started at SEDA Council of Government, I was in economic development.

And that was a very old school, outside-in view of economic development.

There's a brand new strategy.

And it's entrepreneurship led economic development.

And so when I took the position as Revitalization Coordinator, that was with this new entrepreneurship led economic development, which is inside-out.

So it's focusing on the entrepreneurs growing the communities, rather than looking for the outside to bring new businesses in.

It's to keep the businesses that are there now, and then also grow them from there.

So the partnerships are extraordinarily important, including SBDC, the Council, RDA, you name it.

- Every different acronym you could possibly.

- [Betsy] Every acronym.

- Try to imagine.

- [Betsy] Every acronym.

- Yeah.

- But also the businesses to each other too, to build on that.

- That's a great point.

- Yes.

- The partnership across businesses.

Now some would think, some business owners might think I'm competing with the restaurant down the block.

But what comes out of those partnerships between business owners when they're involved?

- A rising tide raises all ships.

And we've seen that.

So especially like in this community I'm working with now, I regularly see businesses advertising other businesses which would be considered a competition.

They're advertising for them.

So they're building on each other's success.

- That's great.

So before we get into hearing some examples of local communities and the events that they're hosting and the involvement that they have, I'd like to share an example that WVIA went out to one of our local communities, Milton, Pennsylvania.

And Milton is located in central Pennsylvania.

What we saw there was formerly empty storefronts, now filling up with businesses, while also supporting a thriving arts community.

When WVIA visited, they met with two community leaders to find out more about The Improved Milton Experience.

(swooshing) (light music) - My name is George Venios.

I am the Executive Director of T.I.M.E., The Improved Milton Experience.

I'm here to oversee the day-to-day operations of the many different things that we do involved with community revitalization.

Well, the genesis of this was to have our community become part of the Main Street Program.

Our partners included Milton Borough, our local Chamber of Commerce.

That was, gee, almost 20 years ago that that took place, and we've been progressing ever since.

We're in the midst of a really robust revitalization in downtown.

We're filling our storefronts.

It seems like almost every year we come up with brainstormings and ideas of different things that we could be doing that are very unique.

And I kind of have a saying to say that our default answer on the question is yes.

What we do is we have the ability to streamline the thought process by partnering, getting down to the nitty gritty on yes, this is a good project, no, it's not.

And then once we execute a project, we move and we move fast.

And then also our newest venture now is gonna be partnering with DIG Furniture Bank.

- DIG is moving into downtown Milton, starting in 2023.

So we are one of T.I.M.E.

's newest collaborating partners.

We are a 501(c)3 that collects gently used furniture and household items from the community and provides it to families within our three county regions.

So Snyder, Union, and Northumberland Counties.

We will be occupying this.

It's about 9,000 square feet, and we're completely renovating it.

Milton has really transformed, especially in the personalities of some of the downtown shops that have been opening and connecting with the community.

George's team at T.I.M.E.

dove right in and just ripped off all the facade, exposed this beautiful marble.

Milton lifers have really loved seeing this come back to life because this is their childhood, these tiles and these storefronts.

And a good reminder again of what Milton used to be like.

So we're bringing it back, yeah.

So much of what I've done so far, I have hardly had the answers to at the very beginning.

But I've just started, and I figure it out as as I go.

And I think that I've learned a lot of that from T.I.M.E.

as well of just saying yes and figuring it out.

(swooshing) - If saying yes and then figuring it out isn't the greatest example of entrepreneurial based economic development, I don't know what there is.

So Julie, I know you saw it in that, well, exactly what you referred to.

Milton lifers seeing their downtown come back to life, exposing those tiles, that storefront, some of the glimpses of the past.

Seeing what's happening in Milton, I wanted to ask you to expand on that and share what are some other communities that you're aware of, great examples of what they're doing.

- [Julie] Sure.

- To revitalize their downtowns.

- Well, and I think with Milton, they're really looking at this from the arts perspective, but also the entrepreneurial perspective, and also creating and and building off of their maker space.

So providing that support for local entrepreneurs, and we can't say local, young anymore.

The average entrepreneur I believe is in their late 40s to early 50s.

So just providing opportunities for that next chapter I think is really important.

And the next chapter for us as individuals, businesses, and communities.

I think we're starting to see some of the same things happening now as we did after the recession in 2009, 2010, where we're looking at how to be efficient.

So creating that efficiency with co-working spaces, with community kitchens.

Maybe individuals who at one time thought they might want to start a restaurant, maybe they are looking to start small.

Maybe they're looking to make a huge career change and take that chance.

But I think providing opportunities and really trying to think about how we are relevant nowadays.

We're never gonna be what we were before, but that doesn't mean that we can't celebrate some of those same characteristics, traditions, businesses, ways of life.

But we are different, and we're always evolving.

And so I think it's important for us to kind of decide what that is and for us to have that say.

This is a grassroots effort, as Betsy was referring to.

And so this is not about someone telling us what we should be, but this is about us deciding what we wanna be.

- I hear that when I visit and speak with George Venios in Milton.

He talks about the manufacturing heritage of Milton.

- [Julie] Sure, Chef Boyardee, right?

- Right, right, such an employer and such a tradition of making.

And now we see making, that manufacturing heritage, being reinvented in a maker space.

- [Julie] Right.

- [Steve] So it's really true to the essence, to the culture and values of that community.

And as we see that enacted in a new way, it's really inspiring.

- Yeah, and I think supply chain is a phrase that before COVID, if you're not in the business community, right, you may not be aware of it.

But every industry has a supply chain.

And why can't we bring more of that supply chain and that business to business development and partnerships to our downtowns as well?

- And as we glanced at that video again of some of the sights and scenes of downtown Milton, what I'm struck by is the art, the embrace of the creative community, the murals of Milton.

Now, Mike, I know Pittston also has examples of public art and artists involved.

Can you speak about how that's happening in Pittston, arts and other things that are being embraced?

- Sure.

- From the community.

- Absolutely, so downtown has its core function of delivering services and being the center of those services.

But we in the city have always believed that there's another function.

And it becomes sort of a stagelike atmosphere down there where you can have programmatic events.

And then the backdrop of that would be the art.

So public art has really been one of the principle strategies that has driven our revitalization effort, from murals to sculptures to an art gallery, to art classes.

So art is really critical.

I think it causes people to stop and question and take a look.

And it also is a way for us to celebrate the past.

And as Julie was talking about, we throw a phrase around a lot.

We're proud of our past and confident in our future.

And as Julie said, the future's not going to be the same.

And as we approach main streets, it's really about a three-pronged sort of driven approach.

I mean, it's the way it was, the way it is at some point that we're frustrated with, and that becomes the motivation for the way we want it to be.

And we decide then what fuels that engine of change.

And for us, it has been art that's been a big part of that fuel.

- Well thanks, Mike.

Now Pittston to Shamokin.

Betsy want to ask you to speak about some of the exciting things that are happening there.

And there are some similarities in these.

- Absolutely.

- Communities.

The coal industry of the past that you're proud of in both regions.

- Right.

- But what's the future in Shamokin?

- So what really struck me when I was watching the piece on Milton is it's a community pride.

It's bringing the pride back, because something that the previous mayor, John Brown, brought up is that the City of Shamokin, which I'm sure many communities can, they almost have this battered woman syndrome where they feel like they've been put down by themselves.

Nobody says worse things about their community than themselves.

And so being able to get some low hanging fruit, to be able to, like, we're putting in a pocket park, and we're showing them that they are beautiful, to remind them that they are something worth fighting for.

So that's one of the big things that we're trying to do is to make the community more beautiful to remind them.

And also the storefronts.

So I was really touched by that piece with T.I.M.E.

and what they're doing there.

So I would say that, exactly, it's very similar to Pittston, Milton.

There's so many communities that are exactly the same.

- Now I know you and other community leaders, community activists have created some really novel events.

- [Betsy] Yes.

- In Shamokin.

And that does tie in with what Julie said about events.

- Absolutely.

- As a way to promote the downtown.

Can you talk about some of those?

- Sure, and there's brand new Artisan Alley, where we feature local artists.

There's FIOS, which is the Future Innovators of Shamokin, which is just youth.

And there's so many youth involved right now.

There's Heritage Festival to remind people of the very exciting things that are happening in the community.

There's a 5K.

There's all different events at the Christmastime.

There's Downtown Christmas.

Just as I said, a lot of events, a lot of interesting things for the community to do, to get behind.

- I know one of the key economic drivers in the region is the Anthracite Outdoor Activity Area.

There's a connectivity between that and downtown Shamokin, like literally riding.

- Yes, riding through.

The City of Shamokin, and I'm talking to probably a lot of the communities, started their downfall about 80 years ago.

It probably hit rock bottom about 10 years ago.

But that's right about when the AOAA, which is the Anthracite Outdoor Adventure Area, came into play.

And all of a sudden businesses started popping up.

And what that is is a four wheeling, Jeep.

You're riding around in the old coal areas.

And you actually can drive from the park right into downtown, which is so interesting.

And it was the first city.

The City of Shamokin was the first city to actually allow ATV riders to actually drive into the city to eat their lunch or what have you.

And it really was the impetus for the economic boom that started.

But I hear a lot of times people say, "Well, it's not where it used to be."

It's never gonna be where it used to be.

But we can make it so much better than what it was.

And that's really what we're focusing on.

We cannot make up 80 years in, I've only been there for three and a half years.

We can't make up 80 years in three and a half.

But we can certainly get a whole lot better.

And we are.

- Now, I know that that sticktuitiveness.

- [Betsy] Amen.

- That you and other community leaders express.

Mike, I wanna turn to you.

That sense of the long term.

We're in it for the long haul.

How important is it for a community to have that plan, to stick to that plan, have that perseverance to work it?

- Well, I think the plan is really critical to any success.

And I would recommend to anybody that's out there that has any involvement in a municipality and wants it to turn around, I mean, really should reach out to the Pennsylvania Downtown Center.

That's the first step I think.

Admitting that you need that plan, and then adopting that plan.

And I think the other piece, and I think both of our guests will agree, that this is a long term thing.

I mean, I've been at it myself personally for 22 years.

And I believe we're not even 50% of the way.

I don't know if I'll make the next 22, but it's a long-term plan.

So you have to have that.

And I think, not to be critical, but I think the other piece of the long range plan is that it's sort of a preventive approach.

Elections come and leadership changes, and there are lots of good ideas.

But one good idea can take you extremely far away from another good idea, and you wind up restarting.

And then when you talk about those three year chunks, it just makes it even more complicated.

So I can't emphasize enough the plan and sticking to the plan.

Just don't do the plan, you gotta stick to the plan.

You can't merely put a plan in and shelve it.

You gotta follow the plan.

- And you need to have collaboration.

You need to have community buy-in.

When we started working in the City of Shamokin, this could not be a SEDA COG approach.

This was us working with the city to help the city get what the city wants.

This is not a SEDA COG approach.

And then we had to make an actual effort to get the city citizens involved, the businesses, the organizations.

So that way if we have to do a little bit of a pivot, they're all involved.

- And I think what Julie can talk about, that the other important part of the plan is also some metrics to make sure that you're getting the results you expect.

And I'll throw in a buck now and a compliment.

I had a professor when I was there, Dr. Roger Tarpe, who said, "What gets measured, gets done."

And I think that's why it's so important to have metrics attached to that plan.

And Julie can speak better to that.

- Julie, I know this has resonated with you.

Expand on this, please.

- Sure, well, I mean, I think certainly having what we call an asset base but market driven vision, so that that really is what the plan speaks to.

It gives you a target of where you wanna be going so that you can keep that momentum and that sticktuitiveness.

As far as metrics, I mean, we do track businesses.

We track and we look at net businesses, not just new businesses, because we know they come and go.

We track public and private investment.

We look at jobs.

And that's not just from a job creation, but also, again, we know that there are jobs that are gonna be lost.

One of the things that we took part in, and we collect these statistics from our communities annually.

And you can always go to our website to kind of see where we're at at a state level.

And we can certainly promote that at an individual level too.

But we also looked at the impact of COVID and how our local residents have really supported our local business districts and our downtowns through COVID.

So although there was that severe drop, we know that the numbers actually have increased now and the spending is better than it was pre-COVID.

- So at the very opening of tonight's program, we spoke about impacts to downtowns from shopping online, and before that from malls and big box stores, but most recently, the pandemic.

As we look into the future, a final word on what do downtowns need to do, need to be, to be resilient for the next big challenge?

Julie, a thought on that?

- I think be open and flexible.

So knowing that our spending is changing, it's gonna constantly evolve, and realizing that we don't always know what customers want, so ask questions and really be open to that.

- Great, final note.

What makes a downtown resilient?

- I would agree on those.

And I think we need to be strategic and diverse.

And we need to think about there are core businesses that you're always going to need.

The insurance companies, the doctors, the dental offices, the law offices.

Those are the first tier.

And then as you move farther away from that, the risk gets a little bit greater.

So I think you need to think about stabilizing your main street with some of those first tier level things, and then layering on the more risky things as you go.

- Well, thanks Mike.

And I'd like to thank each of you for participating in tonight's great conversation.

Thanks for coming to WVIA to join us.

For more information on this topic, please visit wvia.org/keystonebusiness.

And remember, you can watch this episode on demand anytime online, or on the WVIA app.

For "Keystone Edition," I'm Steve Stumbris.

Thanks for watching.

(upbeat music)