Live from lackawanna state bar wdia presents Keystone a addition reports of public affairs program that goes beyond the headnes to address issues in north eastern and Central Pennsylvania This is key Keystone addition reports and now the moderator Larry void go you've probably noticed a different look to our program today and that's because we're coming to you live from lack of what to stay park for a very special one hour Edition of and reports hello i'm Larry void The topic today p a parks and recreation from camping fishing to hiking the Pennsylvania state state park system is a gem for all who enjoy the great outdoors the splendor of Pennsylvan state parks is widely known but in addition to the activities already mentioned one can find plenty of other recreational pursuits to of the commonwealth Forjoy they instance Pennsylvania parks offer an ample opportunity for picnicking and boating and birdwatching even geo caching for practitioners of meditation the state's many open areas offer tranquil settings for mindful reflection although we may live life at an accelerated pace the state parks of Pennsylvania are a gentle reminder that there are still I do like bits of bucolic wonder verden places where some very close to home that offer a pastoral oasis Ketone Edition reports Paul azhar provides this snapshot the commonwealth of Pennsyania is home to one hundred twenty four state parks and whether it's a day hike ricketts glenn state park in mountain to check out those glorious waterfalls camping in the woodlands with family and friends at francis slocombe state park in wyoming taking a swim during the summer months that lackawanna state park in north abington township or enjoying a panel will riverboat cruz and subsequent nanny state park in williamsport the chimps of the commonwealth or a place for everyone and anyone to find something to do in the great outdoors some of Pennsylvania state parks are also places of great historical significance according to the Pennsylvania department of conservation and natural resources in 1893 Pennsylvania governor robert e pattison signed act 130 for the acquisition of ground at valley forge for a public park A couple of decades later gov martin g brumbaugh was given a grant from congress allowing him to build what is called the great arch a victory at valley forge with an inscription at the top of the monument reading naked and starving as they are We cannot enough admire the incomparable patients and fidelity of the soldiering washington at valley forge 1776 so as we can see pennsylvania's history runs not only through the battlefields courthouses and other public spaces of the commonwealth but also through the shivering some through the forest canopies hypnotic beauty of the ripples of the gentle waterways as well as the countless memories created for and by all pennsylvania's state parks for Keystone addition reports I'm Paul mazar thank you so much Paul Well it's time to welcome our guests who are here to share their expertise on the topic and joining us is donald hiccups host of Pennsylvania outdoor life from w ndp tv nathan regner pennsylvania's director of outdoor recreation and Oh and wars bit lackawanna heritage trail lackawanna heritage valley The trail and environmental projects manager well welcome everyone and of course you know the weather is not cooperate It's a little bit better than it has been over the last weekend but today we've experienced all four seasons one day just when we were going to go live here It started to write So it's just lightly raining I'll start with you Nathan The first director of of outdoor recreation for Pennsylvania So tell us what the job involves what you're charges and why Why the position was created in the first place Thank you very much for having me It's a pleasure to be here with with you and your guests So the root of the root of the job understanding about to a recreation is a nice saturday afternoon or a nice evening with family friends are getting outside and outdoor recreation is that it is also in industry is also a sector of our economy it's a pathway toward public health It's a pathway toward community nnectedness outdoor recreation also takes an ecosystem to put together it takes state parks and state forests like this place where we are It also takes a nonprofit partners like the lackawanna heritage valley and it takes businesses manufacturers retailers designers of gear guides and outfitters ski areas mapmakers content producers there has not yet been an entity within state government pulling together all of those elements of the ecosystem and helping to deliver the benefits the economic benefits health benefits community benefits of outdoor recreation holistically and so that's my charge to be that connective tissue among all of the elements of ecosystem of the outer ecosystem and to help serve the outer industry like we serve the other industries the agricultural industry the manufacturing industries in our commonwealth Well I think we're going to be touching on all of that in this program the economic the health benefits all of the other other benefits to us in a variety of ways Now don you You've been doing Pennsylvania outdoor life or about 30 years Yeah Thirty two Yeah so over that time You know it's hard hard to kind of cap encapsulate what you've been through in 30 years but what What have you noticed what is made the biggest impact on you regarding the out of doors that you've explored and what kind of activity is there are yeah Tell us about that Well i'm gonna i'm gonna just say that heritage Well we have our legend ah where where people grow up and state parks play a very important partner most kids catch their first bluegill in a state park most kids rose their first hotdog in a state park So where you're talking you know economy and getting all these other groups together I'm talking about somebody sitting back 30 years after their first thought that taking another kid out to do it So you I think it begins a heritage that we have and it keeps it flowing from one generation to the next as As state parks accommodate and offer more things different kinds of memories are being made But the memories are the important part So yeah I love what the state is doing I love the state park system but to see a father out there taking a bluegill off of a fishing hook or a family around one of your little burners with a hot dog on a stick That to me is the most important part that the state parks play just as the people Right And so I think I think what we're going to learn is that the existence of the state parks the use of the state parks is multifaceted and there's there's almost no downside I mean how many things in in our life don't have a downside Right You know Yeah so over this time done what changes have you experienced if any and on balance have they been positive changes Oh i'm definitely possible You know when when I first started this show There were no such things as kayaks i'm lakes right I mean the kayaks one here Now we've got people renting kayaks and state parks and and the actual idea that trails now not only Can you walk a trail but you've got a map that tells you how far it is back to your car like we just were told Go ahead There's a trail out there someplace Right now there's all this way Plus you've got phones that are showing us where we're walking on what part of state park so it's almost impossible to get lost Yeah so you would put the compass on your phone Absolutely absolutely So all of that would have about all those little changes along the way and in a state parks desire to keep attracting more people I think that that's just priceless So that's what I have seen change I've seen from There's the woods go to it To manicured while hiking trails kayak rentals even programs Most of the state parks have great naturalists all summer long and they're doing what creditors fly what critters Can you find under a rock an edible plants so it is a priceless opportunity for a family to get out and have fun Now now on a good deal of your stability is to oversee trails it that are and they lack of one heritage valley in there They have to manage them so tell us about that the trails what your job entails and what the trails offer Sure I don't like want to hear in his valley is a national and state heritage area which is bound by the watershed of lackawanna river One of the main projects and ideas of the heritage rallies to reconnect people to the lackawanna river We do this in many ways ways but the main way that we do this is by building the rail trail along the lock won a river one on when it's all said and done it will begin and pittston in a waylon lock one all the way up through the headwaters near stillwater damn where connects to the dna trail trail as part of the project We not only try to encourage people to get out to walk and bike and take their pets but we're also focused on developing these river access sites along the lock one So you can look at it more like a a multi recreational trail So you can Like up river and take your kayak back down and what whatever it would do this Several different ways to actually embrace and enjoy enjoyed a lot of what we have to offer I were trying to continue to develop more and more of these sites and long like wana and And we were very fortunate where I a lot of other trail organizations so I get to find out the best practices of how people are doing things and wilkes-barre you're out in different parts of the state as we try to take a lot of that and bring it back to the lock one of ali and then whatever we're doing It's good to give that back to other other groups so that we work with each It's good to give that back to other other so it's been very very exciting So what we're doing here is taking existing pathways that were made for the railroads back in the industrial revolution and we're kind of repurposing them for and bringing them back into them the natural state where it and you and I were talking about it and other interview I did with you on radio how how we used to play on the rail Oh my god Yeah There were those their word the trails there are the rails there and we used to use it like And now they're manicure places for people to recreate and again that's a whole positive a positive aura to the area that we thought was not going to be nothing but just a whole bunch of leftover railroad tracks there are now we have the trails in our area but they're trails throughout the entire state is that right They certainly Pennsylvania has more named real trails than any other state in union No kidding I think it's over 600 or something And that's just one type of trail We also have horse trails we've got mountain bike trails we've got summer and winter motorized recreation trails we've got water trails in the commonwealth as well And we'll get to see some of the water trails a little bit later what's interesting to me is this real trails movement anybody have any background on that about when it started in the Yes well it begins you know with with Pennsylvania being one of the great real commonwealth when the great real states in the union with the Pennsylvania railroad and as our industrial heritage changed over time as it will We had this resource this this industrial transportation resource leased across the state as railroads stopped using those routes for commercial industrial purposes the value of them is recreational roots and in fact transportation routes for bicycle and pedestrian transportation people get to work Children to get to school that was recognized money was dedicated policy was written to take advantage of these real trails and now we're national leader and you know the story doesn't end there We had this 19th century industrial infrastructure that became 20th century recreational infrastructure and now there are counties in the commonwealth who are taking that 20th century recreational infrastructure and turning it into 21st century information infrastructure using those real corridors for things like broadband internet connectivity bringing that tech now using the rail trail to bring that technology from urban hubs to rural communities and positioning those communities for success So they're laying there laying broadband fiber fiber optics like right down to the other underground or so Yeah So it doesn't disturb the natural beauty of it That's amazing and certainly makes a heck of a lot more sense than tearing down a whole bunch of other trees to to to run that now that the trail and the trails are managed in a variety variety of ways Isn't that right We have nonprofits and we have government Could you give us a little bit more information on how that works yeah there's a lot of different ways that you can manage the trail system I think I mentioned you when we were talking Getting ready for this That we convening what so-called with the northeast forum where we bring all of these different trail organizations together on a quarterly basis when we talk about projects that are going on and project in sections of trailed make that might be getting beginning developed all of these organizations are run differently lh v a we are amenities municipal authority of lackawanna county There are other ones that are your typical nonprofits other ones which you're just a group of friends It's a friend's group where they managed to the trails through a volunteer program other areas you have He may have other municipalities governments which takeover different trails so there's there's a lot of different ways that you can do it but we try to bring everybody together like I mentioned about once once a quarter to to talk about the projects nathan their other moneys available for anybody who wants to try to improve these trails or get one started something that that's certainly there there are plenty of there Well we can She was more of writers but there are a number sort there are a number of sources of funding funding available for the department of conservation department of transportation department of community and economic development There are philanthropic organizations making investments in this area and the real key is bringing together the right mix of funding sources at the right timing first to do planning an engineering then to do the actual construction of these trails and finally for both maintenance and to stand up the businesses that support the trails the bike shops the cafes and restaurants the european bs the places that really turn that recreational infrastructure into a community and and a source of economic prosperity for the fourth portrayal towns Well there is one very famous trail that actually runs through the wdia broadcast area the longest hiking only footpath in the world runs 75 miles through five counties in north eastern and Central Pennsylvania the appalachian trail is one of the many trials open to outdoor recreation in our region local organizations and communities benefit from their close proximity to the trail often simply called the eighty four Keystone Edition reports katulis has more light rectangles on trees rocks and road signs and north eastern and Central p a signify that you are on the appalachian trail travelling northbound the historic over 2000 miles trail starts in georgia and ends in maine in the middle Is Pennsylvania nicknamed rock sylvania for its around 230 miles of rocky terrain the trail is used by through hikers the nickname given to those attempting to hide the trail in its entirety and one shot long distance hikers and day hikers near the delaware water gap national recreation area hikers confide rest and community at two spots the presbyterian church of the mountain and the american mountain clubs mohican outdoor center the church in delaware water gap is home to the oldest hiker hostile on the 80 About a mile from the trail every thursday for mid-may to mid august the host of free hiker potluck dinner dave child's coordinates the hikers center at the church It's a way to welcome hikers give them a chance to take kickback being close to town there's resupplies You know they get a shower and the community that to bring them in Larry back helped start the hostile in 1976 the church was struggling with few people coming to sunday morning services we came up with the idea of how we could be a church to reach out and the community hikers were walking around town back says the town of delaware water gap has embraced the hikers the reverend sherry blackman is the church's pastor she recently wrote a book tales from the trail that pays tribute to the hikers and their stories who have come through the hostile The people who stay at the hostile and come to the dinners keep the church going Fellowship you've got food You've got a place to stay You have ah you have music I don't know any business around open armed to hikers the abolition malin club is the oldest conservation a recreation organization in the country there mohican outdoor center just over the delaware river and blair's town new jersey as various types of logic for not only the 80 hikers but those seeking an outdoor experience mark zach you dansky is director of conservation policy engagement with the mountain club having it right here in new jersey and Pennsylvania cutting across the delaware river and through the delaware water gap national recreation area provides an opportunity from people for people from all over the region to enjoy the outdoors well the Covid-19 pandemic seems to have touched all of our lives in many different ways including the way we have looked at and used and made use of the outdoor recreational opportunities that presentation and don jacobs let me ask you have you noticed in the Covid-19 a difference in the engagement of the audience for Pennsylvania outdoor life or in some other way have you noticed some kind of other personal You know what effect that the pandemic when that first year hit we definitely saw more people fishing more people hiking we definitely saw more people buying kayaks fishing rods the sales of boats went through the roof because people realized this may be a side we may not be able to go to the boardwalk or to disney we may have to look inside the state of Pennsylvania and in a lot of cases find what they had his kids klein what they grew up with that they got away from and it since that time i've talked to many guys who said you know I finally took my kid fishing because sports weren't happening and now we now have efficient buddy And that stories told over and over Facebook is really really a cool thing to connect people For example mushroom picking like somebody started won the northeast p a mushroom whatever And now there's thousands thousands of members You know same thing would like outdoor cooking so it brought people to say we can reach out we could have friends we can get involved but we're doing it outdoors and we're not having a drive to another state to do it We don't we don't have to go anywhere but in our backyard francis slocombe state park is where I grew up I roasted my first hot out here I come So back to that So I think I think that when coded hit people re-evaluated what's important important and they found what they grew up with a lot of people said that I remember my my dad used to go out mushroom picking pinky yeah i'm a master of a bit I yeah well we'll have to go out a mushroom hunt with your son Let's do it I had a humanitarian aid and old came and go looking through state parks are a great place to do that They really are blueberry pick I think I think pennsylvania's like the number one mushroomed producer in the country as we really are Oh and you You had said there were some studies that we're done that you shared with me about a huge increase in the use kind of tracked in those years of the pandemic as well yeah we did a study in 2017 so a couple of years before the pandemic but I'd showed that there were roughly three hundred and fifteen thousand people using the lock want to river heritage trail on an annual basis When we just looked at our trail counters this isn't looking at every single person we had estimates of up to like four hundred and seventy five thousand people using the trail for 2020 so they did jump exponentially How many people were coming out in the numbers continue to grow It's been wild to watch where everything's landed let's let's move on to like specific activities that are out there what we have and nathan what what what can people expect or what should they What What can they look for is far the specific activities that the state parks offer was state parks were were our state park system now is a product career we have more risk gotten doc goddard's vision for the state parks and he w the director of the of the state park stem a cole of generations ago and it was h goal of in statearks filreati as availae ornted outo a recrti outdoor ste rks ha a waterfeature And e taing intate parksthings likhikg gs and vgie dogscamping piicki t for out to a rreatio in the commonweah as well you'll d c in orlando We have a bureau of fostry with s state forestth countrskng we have downhill s areas on state land The ate isalso inven oprtunities for motorized recreation snowmobiling new opportunities for summerme motorized recreationtv iutah leaving these sorts of things I have something that struck me i've been in my role for about a year and a half now it's somethg that struck me since i've been in this role Thvariety about available in nnsylvania is far greater than I thought And the quality is far higher tn I Then I thought i'm not much of an angler but have anglers telling me you know Penylvania has some of the be trout steelhead fishing in theshing st world nathan Let's go to done because he has expertise in this matterlittle a of aling and you're right about being having so many formed by the fabric ham and sunbury openup a huge lake Now you've got big boats there waterskiing there jet skiing on a state park That was planned years ago by the fabric dad litt trout streams and thene like you were saying incredible fishing and yet A lot of people don't know that if theyand thene walk up one hundredyards there'r little hole So now they're adding little bit of explong and they're adding a little bit of hiking and itreally doesd Parks like this This s huge fishing a little population This is one of the best kept secrets ice fish this at court croppies and bluegills out of this lake its second to none t this is just one the lakes in the state par so underutilized but steelhead fishing in lake erie in that area esome Absolutely Awome that's that's part of a state park state forces and of course this hunting Oh yeah I was just turkey on this morning on ricketts glenn state park frothe top of the hill and then gamelan meets right there So there's tons of opportunities to be used We have actually we have a little family of turkey's that comes through the wdia dark real close to the high highway and they jus kind of do their thing and th kind of come Come along Oh and tell about some of the otheactivities that you know that you promote in at lackawanna heritage valley share We obviously black wanna is a classmate while wild child stream as we were talking about it before we get on So we ne to promote a lot of access sites for people to go fishing We are all about running hiking when you're traditional real show uses but then we've seen a lot of people who are now the roller blading there and male plants are doing that just the thing with us Yeah I remember when we actually had we had someone call in As we were promoting the program and they had a question about a particular type of activity that maybe as possible maybe is not possible can we can we roll that That's the question from the viewer hi my name is merely mcclain i'm calling about your special tonight and Pennsylvania state park I recently bought an electric fake and i'm interested to see how many state parks are good for a ride writing an electric bike Now that's not to be mistaken for mountain biking and specifically looking for bike trails thank you Okay thank you you so electric bikes are they allowed anyway This is a great example of how the waves were recreating just continued to diversify diversifying we're figuring out new ways to have fun outdoors all the time The department of conservation and natural resources recently put out a new policy for e bikes in Pennsylvania now that policy applies to d c in our lands and other land owners you mentioned game commission at a state game lands allegheny national forest some of our county portion of our national parks will all have different guidance but on trails and roads under d c in or management e-book while it gets highly technical e blake's that conform to penn dots definition of a pet a cycle or welcome for use on our trails and these are most of your typical e bikes and you're e-books operating with pedal assists rather than a push push-button throttle I say so Earlier on Nathan you talked about the economic benefits of using the great outdoors in the parts of whatever Pennsylvania has to offer Couldn't get it Let's dig down into that a little bit What What kind of economic What kind of there's a lot There's a lot we can talk about but But let's think about it in two levels So one levels kind of the macro economic so outdoor recreation the auto industry generates 14 billion dollars worth of our gross domestic product then that's one point six percent of our gross domestic product these numbers come from the u s bureau economic analysis part of the us department of commerce and that one point six percent of our gdp that's larger than the contribution made by mining quarrying oil and gas extraction it's larger than the contribution made by forestry agriculture commercial hunting and commercial fishing so at the state level outdoor recreation really is a big player economically and those numbers matter to me when i'm in harrisburg but most people are interested in the economics the economic benefits for communities and we see those economic benefits touched down in terms of commercial and industrial relocations more and more manufacturers more and more corporate headquarters are looking for trail access recreational access to as he a key top level factor in their decision of whether to move in the same thing happens with residential patterns people choose new homes near parks and trails and that's changed over the past 20 years because they used to be Not in my backyard I don't want this trail coming through enough people want betrayals yes so there's benefits as well Lackawanna heritage valley just in in that area that that you're studying its millions of dollars Yeah The study that I referenced in twenty seventeen showed that it was like 32 million dollars annually were just direct directly from the trail that breaks down to about 300 hours per user how that can be somebody buying a bottle of water The one time customer or it could be the same guy and I would think that it's only going to go up from here if we're talking about Just one little aspect that own was referencing in that study where it jumped You know in just a few years adding one hundred and fifty thousand users that will then keep continuing to grow and then these economic benefits will continue to be felt and that one point six percent or whatever the gdp is going now be two percent and so forth and so on So this This is why I mentioned some of the other industries and how they relate make a bigger is better argument but to set up a thought experiment you know I talk about that 14 billion dollar contribution to our gdp it's pennsylvania's 14 billion dollar secret and the thought experiment is to think about Think about the amount of time we spend talking about oil and gas extraction Think about the number of organizations within government and outside of government that are supporting agriculture and agri-business now think about what could out to a recreation be doing for us What could it be doing for our economy what could it be doing for a public health What could it be doing for happiness if we talked about it as much if we nurtured it if we supported it grew it the way we helped to grow some of these other industries I have to agree with you I think that the more people or you something they're going to look at something over here that's broken and say we should fix that A good example is the lack of want a river I grew up in what's pitched him put our hand in the water thinking it was going to come back just bulbs That's our orange it was it had other stuff floating down it somebody or and said we need to fix it and they think that you know what I mean like they did it and and it's not done yet And you should know right because your work very I think the more people that hiking trail and say what if we can make it go to this town and they get it done They made They may lobby you They may they look for the money and they get it done The more we do it It's just gonna keep growing and growing I think well actually own right We we we sent deli to go with you and a kayak trip down the lackawanna of one Tell us about that a little bit Sure I get to get out on the river eight o'clock on a so we started up that parker's landing which is the brand new site that we had developed unlock want a river and it was funded through the boat fish commission I mean we went a downriver to sweeney beach where we got out of sight managed by the log on to ever conservation association and we've just got to talk about the developments long one river and the importance of water trips Well let's see what kelly came up with that relates to both don and all we're talking about this was treated as nothing more than an open sewer for so long you wouldn't want to turn it back on it People are looking to embrace it so that's why we're building to building a lady's access points where people can actually get to the river ooh right now we have acquired under 50 acres of land along the river and different spots and we work with the like one heritage valley authority to create a trail and greenway system a along the entire length of the river to help protect the river turn dumping ground and to park but it's quite like this was just filled with litter people would throw things in the river shopping carts who are a big thing They still are water heater sinks toilets so we've pulled all kinds of things out of the river and we turned it from a wasteland into park in a river access you need to know a little bit about streaming morphology if you are going to paddle on a stream they're not ponds they're not lakes the water moves in direction with gravity to so many quick turns and going down on the lackawanna We need to make sure that you have a life jacket and you will always want to check the river height ideally you want a kayak this between two and a half and three and a half feet by developing the water trailing by getting these sites opened up You have people that want to get to the river they want to go on a kayak or can you read what I get throw rocket People just like to bring their dog down with him run around the river They want to get to the river to go fishing i'm telling you i'm addicted There's like nothing like it The fitting can be unsure certainly and you have to pay attention to the current iraqi rocks and all that part of doing this is paying attention to the world around you I guess so It's just an extra level A lot of people will finish They'll catch they'll eat it I usually just throw the fish back you know so that they can be quite to get by somebody else that's also a little part of being a to say that there are a lot of people that just respect the shoreline only here garbage here You know it was so pristine don't bring it here and leave it I have kids and that I definitely want to leave it better for them Then I found it And so we have to do all we can while we're here to make that impact that positive impact and help those future but more people out on the river on a regular basis Give me that many more people who want to come out and work on keeping a clean gives them that census stewardship we can't we can't live in a concrete world lined with plastic trees You gonna happen we need to restore what we still have on this planet We need to take care of it well it seems to be that it connects into what you were saying a little bit earlier done that little more people use something the more likely they are to look down and there's that tire that Dr park the apple cart and not do it or find a way to pick it up or you know if you if you we always say you don't take out more than you bring in and I see people fishing along streams picking up the worm containers and like that maybe when you beat it into their heads This is years to own like you know this is your stream and they're going to close that stream proficient in if people keep polluting and I do see people walking game lands picking up stuff that balloons from parties lord knows where they are But they pick it up and they take it either rather because they treating it like it's theirs and I think that you're right I I think a group that comes in and says let's clean it up and somebody So what you do to the river Next time you do that let me know Yeah you know and it goes on like yeah Is there if somebody watching now wants to get involved What's the best that nathan Well I of course begin by suggesting that you visited department conservation and natural resources web site and look for Look for opportunities there Now there's an opportunity opportunities who can be coming from the state level I think it's I think a lot of these opportunities really bubble up from the grass roots and our community driven And so I I'd suggest get in touch with your county pork Get in touch with your local park system Get in touch with an organization like a lackawanna heritage valley and ask for an opportunity to volunteer ask for an opportunity to contribute I guarantee you'll be taken up on your offer so people going to the web site there Can you know if you want to volunteer is there a section on that Or how how you can get in contact with lackawanna heritage valley and get involved Yeah It's all on our website or you call the office But it's We're very fortunate along the like one of our heritage channel unlock one river that we have volunteers we have these hundreds and hundreds of people to keep coming back every year they want to help out volunteering and unfortunately is still are picking up trash That means it's still happening but now we focused more on planting trees and cutting back and bases instead of just having to pick up the garbage Yeah right Do you think there's you know there's the adopt the highway system worry where you're cleaning up parts of the highways are kind of adopt the party You do it We have we have we already have that in and a lot of it is these big corporations are service groups They're already adapting half mile sections at a time Let's get back a little bit too this idea of kind of You mentioned it happiness You mentioned you know just just that experience of making memories and how that kind of clicks in with the economy because people are really interested in lifestyle now they they don't want to just go in and clock and do that job and come home and go to the bar or something like that There's something about living in a place that almost gifts or read rejuvenates you So how do you Companies are actually looking for that right nathan Absolutely just this past week I was out in crawford county which I know is the other the other corner of the state But the story remains the same I was in crawford county and crawford counties planner was telling me a story of a manufacturer who had been talking with them recently this looking for young highly skilled talent engineers project managers to work at their facility They have jobs they're having difficulty getting candidates and the manufacturers asking the county please build more more gre spaces trails plee bo beuse we knoth lo othe asse in ing to make anour communy thate pennlvians a it's 'shat quity of fe attractiobringing gether hh quality contporaryulral rves which Ihink is code nguage f big reas resuran and specialty retailnd these kinds of this It's that package of quality of life in precditions the fertile soil for broad based onomic development particully in her small and medium sized rural andor broad probly people coming up to you d telling their story Yeah d maybe i've watched an episode or three or five or twenty five of your I dn't realize that shell and w dot t dot right You have a storyou can try Absolutely do and I g back to even mushroom picking ok I grew up Iknew three up doing that And when we air one of those never really tught made it look easy Rign And I think one thing I'd really like to touch upon is ere's so much pulling it kids thes days and we've always said all the computers it's since that it's august organe sports I've got a friend who every weekd travels with his 11 yearld kid and he's notaken fishing and he's not taking them hunting o there's a lot of other things poolingt our kids these days so instantly you've got to say when we're going to when we're gonna do this we're gonna make it fu We're gonna make it somethg that you're going to remember kayaking biking you' perfect where you canails are su get out throw some rocks in the water and let the What We grew up doingid experi but you still haveo have the parent that says i'm gna this with my kid So we ve that underlying problem and I don't want to be a downerut as soon as you let them catch their first fish as soon as they see their first snake going down the rails trails you could hook him forever b they got to be there Haveou get them booked Right so parents have to do I think a little bit better job and i'm not bashing themn Yeah they weren't going what about a sunday morning along the black along the river or in for a lol sock trail allowed the wis That's a good were talking a littlethg to do e bit about maintenance that the average person can do and what did you say to take out more than you brought bring in but there you know that's not going to do it all there's a lot of maintenance that hado find funding to be built and there's much more than that so let's talk about the funding the general funding for for maintenance oh and where we're does that come from for lackawanna heritage valley for maintaining a lot of what we do We rely on so of the communities to help get back so we something then some other organizations but we do rely a lot on volunteers if you're gonna have volunteers come out and cut the grass if they're going to plant trees or anhing like that they need You need to find money to pay for it So we do get money back in a minute money in donations but we also do get some contributions from some of the fferent that has its own hierarchy certainly certainly our state park system our state for a system like every park and for system from the national to the cal suffers I think that's really the only word to use suffers from a deficit of funding for infrastructure projects for maintenance projects and that's that's combination of of the policy's around this and it's also a bit of a product that you know we think that trails grow in the woods like trees do really they require a lot of effort here Here I thinis is is a good place to ne that governor shapiro's budget proposal includes a substantial amount ofmoney foe one point four billion backlog that our state park and state forests system has and that that funding is really a down payment on ensuring that we have the poorer and for a system that we need for the generations to come Now So there's a deficit there and some have suggested at admission fee for state parks So what do we think about that donald go to you first The admissions welfare state park You know i'm i'm all about opportunity Yes So that admission cost keeps anybody from using a stapler i'm against Now you cod say we'll look at At the end of the day you're gonna go spend forty dollars is at wings and pizza what's two dollars at a state park I still think that the idea is my pack taxpayers money should be be appropriated in the right way that no family should have to pay to get on what we've already purchased and we already own so I would have to I would as simplistic is that is I would have to say i'm against any kind of feel like that Now you want to camp at a state park Yeah By all means Beuse bit of that state park and making it just for campers but to come into a state park use one of these picnic tables fish in that lake I don't think there should be own what's your view on that I tend to agree with done I know a lot of the state parks in new york new jersey do charge fees and I kn peop come to Pennsylvania because of that So i'm kind of the same time we have a little some cheap research there You gotta promise land any any weekend It's just tell people from kinetic in new york new jersey standard all those campsites and nathan What's the prevailing mood there and harrisburg we're very We're very proud to have have a free park and far system here in the commonwealth It's a rarity It's a public service that we author offer and I think a very important one Yes there or services extra services that are needed like camping like kayak rentals and And some of those services the commonwealth needs to take on on its own We also see those is operating as opportunities for community businesses to serve that need and we're very proud that rather than charging fees within the state park system We're trying to facilitate concessionaires neighboring businesses to be able to take advantage of that public demand that's that's really like I like the idea that we're still setting up state parks We just put a new one in that fosberg neck I have fish that my whole life Now what's public land Right I mean and they've announced a couple others in the recent past So we're still putting state parks within touch of people that don't have one within that twenty five mile range right So I guess I still like the idea It's my taxpayer money you guys are out there looking for that I did a little chunk of property and maybe through a conservation group maybe through an easement of some kind Maybe just somebody says I own that whole mountain I'm not going to be around for long Take it and I like the idea that we're we're not just saying whatever we have as good We're still looking to put new state parks and I really like that and continue to be adding more land two out of the park some just continues to patch on were pragmatism jason in the state park So in a way they're also growing in the state And how does that happen is just like downside somebody bequeathing acre interest in that that's part of it sometimes they have to purchase properties but um yeah they're just continuing to spend the total acreage of a lot of the parks Well we see growth we see growth in the size of the parks we see growth in the usage of the parks the future looks bright What's the future oh what do you see what do you see for lackawanna heritage valley and the trails say five years from now or five years from now I hope that the whole rail tunnel but I know that it's like we saw you said that the study almost to serve like almost a half million people Right Ideally the real trail side ofat I wantn things Maybe it won't be five trails connecting to each other You have the back mountville coming into the warrior trail you have the dna betrayal coming over down on the tubs and then eventually into wilkes-barre I want to I think it would be great once we have this whole network built Were you don't have to rely on a car to get from point a to point b at all You're just you're on the metro Where are you going to end up now That's ideally where I'd like to get that live Be cool you know and you could just go off and on bike and just take your little tense and That sounds like a fantastic fantastic dream Do you have any idea what do you see in the future Well I hear i'm gonna talk pretty specifically about my role in the future that i've been charged with helping to make reality here in the commonwealth so at the beginning of the program You asked what's my job One way to talk about my job is it's my job to establish an office of outdoor recreation and the commonwealth Pennsylvania and office about to a recreation Is this is this connective tissue this time together of economic development natural resource and conservation businesses and outdoor users and so we see this office over the horizon being created something sometime this summer or the fall the governor has made a down payment on it in his budget providing some staff and a modest operating budget for the office and we look forward future that we look forward to creating with this office in the commonwealth is one where we really live up to our name of pens woods where every pennsylvanian is is a lover and use user of the outdoors where our communities in our businesses see the outdoors as an asset and a piece of our infrastructure like roads and broadband and the electric grid and where we can use the outdoors to bring new people to Pennsylvania to keep our youth in Pennsylvania and to really elevate our profile on the national landscape so actually You see the use of of the outdoor or a amenities of Pennsylvania as kind of a bulwark against what we have experienced over the last 20 30 years and the population decreasing people moving out the so-called brain drain and things of that sort Absolutely You know we heard We heard about the rivers in the historic state of rivers in our commonwealth and so many times when I travel around the commonwealth I hear people in rivertown say you know we turn our backs on the rivers Now we want them to be our front porch We want them to be the welcome mat for our communities and I think when we look around the country at places that are growing places that are prospering we see a strong set of threat of connection to their outdoor species in their outdoor to culture and I tell you if we can be there to here in the commonwealth you probably haven't heard it but we were just sarah gaggle of d c really charm I think they were agreeing with us It's all done the future So here's what I think I think that as long as we're willing Look at i'm old older than a lot of americans right there was on the doors right but I guess my point is I could say I am against he'd bikes i'm against 80s i'mthe against this i'm against us I'm against this And that's not going to allow us to grow That's not going to allow us to bring in new families It's not going to allow us the economic value of of outdoor recreation so I say as long as we're open minded and we think about what is the best use for that property for the maximum opportunities for people in Pennsylvania You know the game commission now has you ten days for turkey's dear that the fishing boat commission youth days for fishing That was all in You know it hopes to get more people to use it as long as the state is really willing to say look at Let's look at maybe we could do an maybe that's okay He bikes or may not be that bad You know and as long as we stay open minded I think the futures looks great Well it's higher our conversations quickly coming to an end we're making it to the end I thought that being outside We thought it was going to rain I thought I was going to have to ask can start a fire but I'd like to thank you all for participating in ed thank you Thank you for joining us For more information go to wdia oregon Keystone reports and remember you can watch re watch this episode on to ban anytime online are the wdia app for Keystone addition reports i'm Larry void go thank you for watching