- [Announcer] Live from your public media studios WVIA presents "Keystone Edition Reports."

A public affairs program that goes beyond the headlines to address issues in Northeastern and Central Pennsylvania.

This is "Keystone Edition Reports" and now moderator Larry Vojtko.

- Hello, I'm Larry Vojtko.

Big changes may be coming to several universities across the state.

The Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education, is proposing to integrate six of its universities into two.

That integration may bring more opportunities for more students, but it may also bring job cuts and program changes.

We'd like to thank PCN for their help in getting this information out statewide.

So, what do you think about the proposed integration?

What problems can you see with it?

Share your thoughts with our experts at +1 800-326-9842.

Send an email to keystone@wvia.org or tag us on social with the #keystonereports.

WVIA's Paul Lazar tells us more about the integration plan and how it may affect students, faculty and their communities.

(air whooshing) - [Paul] The Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education plans to integrate six of the 14 universities in the system into two schools.

The schools affected will be Bloomsburg University, Mansfield University and Lock Haven University in the Eastern part of the state and Clarion University, California University and Edinburgh University in the western part of the state.

Why are these changes being proposed and why now?

The declining number of high school graduates along with fewer people choosing a four year university and the pandemic are all contributing to why the state system is considering integration.

What effects will the proposed integration have?

First, the university that's created by combining the three schools will have one leadership team and one president.

Next, there'll be a unified faculty in a single academic program array.

That means learners and educators will have some in-person classes and some distance education classes.

Face-to-face general education classes will be offered on each campus.

Officials in the state system maintain that each campus will remain open and retain its own identity.

The state systems website shows the proposed integration is designed to actually prevent closures while campuses may not close some faculty and support staff jobs may be on the line as programs are realigned.

Exact numbers haven't been shared.

There are a lot of unanswered questions about the impact that proposed integration would have on the communities that surround these universities.

However, one study suggests the economic impact on both the campuses and communities will be devastating.

In many cases, the student population makes up a vital part of the community's economy by working and shopping at local businesses and many of them rent from local landlords.

The state system believes the integration will help sustain the university's longevity.

The aim is that under a unified faculty, the university as a whole will be able to offer more programs in more formats while reaching a wider audience including adult workers who need to re-skill or up-skill.

Another goal of the integration is a twenty-five percent tuition cut by 2026.

So, what's the next step?

The board of governors decided to go forward with the next steps in a preliminary vote.

Now you get to make your voice heard on the integration plan during the 60 day public comment portion.

There's a link to the public comment portal at our website, wvia.org.

There also be two public hearings.

The board can give its final approval by July.

If the plan is approved, students may be enrolled in the integrated universities in the fall of 2022 semester.

For "Keystone Edition Reports," I'm Paul Lazar.

(upbeat music) - Now we need to hear from you.

We're ready to take your calls at +1 800-326-9842.

You can also email keystone@wvia.org or message us through our social channels using the #keystonereports.

Well, let's welcome our guests who are here to take a look at what the proposed integration may mean for the future and how you can get involved.

Dr.Bashar Hanna is the president of Bloomsburg University and the interim president of Lock Haven University.

Dr. Jamie Martin is the president of the association of Pennsylvania State College and University Faculties.

Dr. Karen Whitney is President Emerita of Clarion university.

She's also served as interim chancellor of the State System of Higher Education and is currently the acting president of the University of Illinois Springfield.

Fred Gaffney is also joining us.

He's the president of the Columbia Montour Chamber of Commerce.

We did invite Chancellor Dan Greenstein of the State System of Higher Education to participate tonight but he declined the invitation.

However, the chancellor did speak about the importance of integration for the universities and their students at last week's board of governors meetings.

And here's what he had to say.

- [Dan] Our public system in Pennsylvania requires fundamental transformation as represented by system redesign.

Quality and affordability is a star part of our mission.

It is the great benefit that Public Higher Education offers.

It ensures that those pathways to opportunity are available to everyone, but we are losing our affordability advantage.

Pennsylvania is losing that available pathway to opportunity.

Our students aren't who they were 20 and 30 years ago because the face of higher education in this country has changed dramatically.

And naturally in order to really even attack those fundamental that we need to make in order to stay relevant and productive and valuable to the state, we need to address financial challenges that we have been talking about for years.

So why integration?

We can ensure that all of our universities are able to offer an even broader breadth of programmatic opportunities to their students independently of the number of students that they enroll.

By working together our universities can create opportunities so that we may continue to operate affordable quality, career relevant education across all regions of the state.

As we engage in this dialogue about what happens after this process is complete whatever its outcome we will because we must come together, lock arms, move forward as members of our university community is our family, our system.

The future of Public Higher Education in this Commonwealth, the future of our universities, the future of our system relies upon our doing.

Our students deserve nothing less than that single mind commitment.

And there's two in respect to their future.

- Now, if you'd like to hear more of what the chancellor had to say there's a link at the Pennsylvania State System of Higher Education website, which you can find at www.wvia.org.

Lots of information there to help you learn more about this plan, this proposal and what went into it.

Now, as I was preparing for the show, I came across the lots of different sorts of terms about virtual learning.

There's virtual learning, asynchronous, synchronous.

There was a also hybrid.

I thought that it might be a good idea that we got some background information and got a definition maybe a little glossary about what all of this means.

So WVIA's Grants and Education Officer Kirsten Smith has a brief explanation of what those terms mean.

- Virtual learning is learning that is based online.

It utilizes remote platforms to deliver content, communicate with students and assess learning.

It is heavily reliant on access to technology and connectivity which are not always available to students at home.

But it is also a tool that can create a completely different learning environment.

Would one consider snow days, need for substitute teachers and of course pandemics.

Should school districts create opportunities to bridge equity gaps in terms of connectivity and access to technology, virtual learning is a game changer in education.

Hybrid learning involves aspects of learning that are both face-to-face and live in nature while also providing the ability to access the content and instruction in a virtual setting.

It's an ideal way of reducing the population in a school by creating teams.

One virtual and the other in-person.

Synchronous learning is learning that is happening in real time.

It can be face-to-face or virtual or a combo.

To be alive and in real time, it may rely on the student access to technology and connectivity which is not always guaranteed.

But the key is that the learning is in real time, interacting with the teacher at that moment, interaction is two ways and questions and feedback are immediate.

Asynchronous learning is learning that is happening at the time that's most convenient for the learner at the learner own pace.

Think correspondence course or independent study as examples.

Content is created ahead of time and provided as a file to be accessed at the student's discretion.

Asynchronous learning involves much more independence and can be problematic for students lacking intrinsic motivation.

It is also important that students have access to technology and connectivity as the content is provided digitally as files to download or stream.

(gentle music) - Alright, so we're ready for our conversation.

And I'm going to start with you, Dr. Hanna, I want to know more, tell us more about what led... What are the circumstances, the situations that led to what is perceived as the need to put forth such a proposal.

- Thank you, Larry.

Good evening.

I think this proposed integration plan goes back to 2016, when the system began its system redesign efforts to create a robust plan moving forward for the state system to be able to continue to offer affordable high quality higher education to all corners of the Commonwealth.

The plan that was submitted and then affirmed by the board of governors last week really focuses on one significant and major set of stakeholders.

And that is our students.

It is student focused and the success of our students is really paramount.

It creates expanded opportunities for our students across all parts of the Commonwealth.

Our smaller institutions are struggling with being able to continue to offer the full compliment of programs because of the dwindling enrollment that we have seen throughout the entire Commonwealth and the nation.

So the plan really looks at how do we continue or reduce costs but at the same time be able to expand the full compliment of academic programs through each corner of the Commonwealth - Dr. Whitney, you were involved with a PASSHE at this time at least during a portion of that time.

Do you have anything to add to that question about what the situation, the circumstances that led to putting forth this proposal?

- Absolutely.

I mean I served as Clarion's president from 2010 to 2017 and then I had the further honor to serve as the interim chancellor of the system for 14 months in 2017 to '18.

So I can say that this moment that we're in right now is decades in the making.

I mean, getting to this point and particularly with what Dr. Hanna was saying in terms of specifically dedicating an effort on vast tremendous transformation is five years in the making.

Absolutely.

- So Dr. Martin, you are the president of APSCUF which represents the faculties and staff in the 14 State Universities.

So you're hearing these comments, What is your reaction response to what you're hearing?

- If I could just correct you, we represent the faculty and the coaches.

So not the staff at our universities.

You know, I think what I'm hearing is, you know, what we have been hearing that we'd need to make some changes that we have, you know, struggling universities are struggling system that we just have a lot of questions that seem to be remaining unanswered especially as it relates to concerns for our students and what this will mean for them as this consolidation begins to unfold.

Concerns about how many online classes or hybrid classes they would have to take?

Will they have to take most of those to complete majors and to complete their degrees?

Concerns about equity in as much as in the report about the different types of hybrid, synchronous, asynchronous learning, you know, a lot of this is based on the premise that everybody has access to technology.

Everybody has access to Wi-Fi or broadband opportunities.

And if those don't exist that could put a lot of our students, many of whom live in rural areas in many of our universities in those areas at risk of not being able to really adequately participate in their educational experience.

And so we have a lot of those kinds of questions and we're hoping to see some of the answers to those in the 400 page plan that was introduced at the Board of Governors on April 28th.

- Dr. Hannah, can you speak to that a bit?

Give us some more details about how that might work and the number of classes, what the actual student experience might be?

- Sure Larry, and I agree wholeheartedly with Dr. Martins.

We all have the same concern regarding our students and their success.

The program that was submitted to the Board of Governors really speaks to one maintaining the full compliment of the programs on each campus that have robust enrollment.

In the Northeast Lock Haven, Mansfield and Williamsburg, 75% of the enrollment at those institutions cluster in eight to nine general academic disciplines.

And we've made the commitment that our students who are making up the enrollment in those programs will see nothing different.

We have committed to offering those programs in face-to-face traditional modalities as we have for more than 150 years at our youngest institution.

I think the question regarding what is the comfort level for students as far as non face-to-face modalities.

Our students were surveyed and the survey came back about 25% of our I'm sorry.

I apologize.

Our students have a comfort level with about 25% of their classes being online or being remote.

And let me, if I may just provide one example of how that is intended to work if the integration moves forward, it is really synchronous on a real-time education at multiple campuses.

So we are working on the infrastructure.

Some of that infrastructure is already in place where a faculty member could very easily be teaching a class that's emanating from Mansfield but has students real time sitting in a classroom at Lock Haven and at Bloomsburg listening to the professor, asking questions also hearing their classmates ask the questions and the discussions.

So those are the kinds of modalities that we're actually working towards making sure that our robust educational system that we provide continues to be high quality.

- Well, over the last several days, WVIA has been on the campuses of the three universities gathering together comments on this particular proposal and on the issues and gathering concerns and then just a bit, we're going to hear some comments from students about distance learning.

And we found that some are positive about it.

Some are not so positive about it but before we get to those spots.

I have a question that came in via email I suppose, Here's the question.

The increased availability of courses and programs via remote offerings is one of the advertised benefits of the integration plan.

Why has that not been always an advantage offered to any of the students in any of the schools in the state system?

Why is it only these six schools and their students that can take advantage of this benefit?

Dr. Hanna, Dr. Whitney, which of you would like to answer that?

- Yes Dr.Whitney - Go ahead.

I was gonna to say conceptually right now, students could probably across the universities take from different schools.

It's just hard and not available and not easy.

So I think one of the hopes of beginning integration was to make it easier for students to actually curate and even richer college experience with the availability of all 14 universities and the availability of all the expertise of 14 faculties.

So I think the idea has always been there.

We've had the infrastructure and the bureaucracy.

They didn't make that easy.

I mean, my hope is that this is a first stage of leveraging the excellence across these institutions but then ideas will continue.

These students and particularly incoming students more and more wanna learn in dynamic ways.

We've got in my baby boomer brain has to get up with those students and be just as dynamic and fluid.

- Well, let's go to these spots.

We went on Lock Haven university's campus and we had some comments about distance learning and hybrid learning.

Let's hear what these comments are.

Let's go to that.

- The fact of the matter is you're curtailing programs and you're cutting faculty.

And so, you know, what's going to end up happening is these students are going to have to take some of those courses through distance education.

And they can't tell us how many classes they're gonna have to take through distance education.

- All of my classes have been online this and last semester.

So, you know, living on campus this semester has been a blessing because I have meetings with my professors on campus and the library, but in terms of online and distance learning, it's tough.

And I know a lot of my peers agree.

- Students might we'll be able to take all their gen ed classes face-to-face and then at whatever campus they go to, but in the last two years they would have some of their upper level classes online.

Well, that's not what the students want.

As a matter of fact the students want the opposite.

- I think it just starts to decrease the value and level of education that we receive at our campuses because they want to use programs like, well use techniques like distance learning and like over Zoom or like traveling between campuses and I think that just starts to...

It makes learning harder for students and it makes it almost like we don't learn as much.

It's how I see it is we may still be able to get an A in the class but whether we actually retain the information, I don't think we will as much.

- Our students are not fans of distance education.

They really want that campus experience.

They really want to be back in the classroom.

- Like, I don't know if next semester I'd have to go, you know, go from one class and then drive an hour and a half to Mansfield or Bloomsburg.

So everything is still up in the air.

'Cause you know, I work here, I live here I go to school here.

I chose to go to school in Lock Haven.

- Well, we also heard some alternate views from some of the folks we talked to on Mansfield University.

But before we get to that, we do have a caller on the line.

So let's go to that question.

Caller can you hear me?

What is your question?

Can you identify yourself please?

- [John] My name is John I'm from Dupont and I actually have a question for Dr. Hanna in his opening statement, he talks about cost cutting and it seems to me that a lot of this has to do with cost cutting.

Has the system looked at which colleges or universities are really a burden financially which ones cost the Commonwealth the most money will not be wiser to cut them loose as it were to see if they can make it as private colleges or universities?

- Dr. Hanna.

- John, thank you for the question.

To close any university in the system requires an act of the general assembly and that would be incredibly difficult, not only to do but also it would be disadvantaging the students in that region who rely on a regional public education to earn their degree.

You're absolutely right.

We do have the analysis of the schools that are in most financial distress, but I think to address them through cutting them loose is really counterproductive to why a system of Public Higher Education exists in the Commonwealth.

- Well, thank you.

Thank you, Dr. Hanna and let's get back to those comments of the the students from Mansfield university who had more positive comments about distance learning and what that might mean.

- Integration provides an opportunity for students to really double the number of bachelor's degrees that they would have available to pursue as students at Mansfield.

Currently we have 27 baccalaureate degrees and with integration that gives us the opportunity to bring on new programs, new majors, new areas of inquiry for students to be involved in.

- A lot of the marquee programs that Mansfield has, a lot of that actually won't be changing with integration.

A lot of the things that we have here now, like music or business or some of the science programs are nursing.

Like those face-to-face instructions will remain almost the same.

- Currently Mansfield doesn't have an economics program.

And as someone who's really interested in economics, I was really bummed to hear that we used to have it and then we don't have it anymore.

You know, who has economics program?

Bloomsburg does.

And I would be very interested as a first year student to enroll in an economics program.

Even if all the classes weren't in-person, I would still be learning economics, right?

And I would still be going to school half an hour away from my house.

I wouldn't have to pay room and board you know, accumulate more debt if I didn't have to, I would be able to go to my home university, half an hour away from where I live and continue to study or begin to study economics which I wouldn't have been able to do before integration.

- So doctor Dr. Martin, what can you respond to these students to this question of enhanced opportunity that is coming along with this proposal?

And that's how the, how PASSHE is making sure that we understand that this is for the student's benefit.

So what is your comment to all of that?

- You would never have a faculty member say that they're not in favor of enhanced opportunities for our students.

That's why we spend time in our classrooms.

You know, the young woman that just spoke from Mansfield spoke about economics degree, one of the concerns and maybe President Hanna can even help with this.

When I looked at the program array for that Northeastern integration consolidation it appeared as if, because Bloomsburg college or school of business has an AACSB accreditation, which is, you know a wonderful program, wonderful accreditation to have and somewhat difficult to actually achieve.

It seemed as if most of the business courses or courses in that college will be face-to-face only at Bloomsburg because they have to be the academic hub for those kinds of degrees.

So that would suggest that that young woman at Mansfield and maybe she would be happy to do this.

We'd have to take all of her major courses online.

I don't know to what extent all students would be thinking of that, so president hand out the outlet but when I looked at that it seemed as if most of those classes with maybe the exception of finance was at Lock Haven and a lot of them going to be a combination of face-to-face but the upper division courses I'd have to assume are going to be online.

- Dr. Hanna response to that.

- Sure.

Dr. Martin makes a very good point because we are a AACSB accredited at Bloomsburg.

There are criteria that the accrediting body places on whom can teach in those programs.

And as long as the faculty is qualified by the AACSB accreditors, they can be at Mansfield, they can be at Lock Haven or at Bloomsburg, but there is a criteria for whom can teach those courses.

So I don't think it's going to be exclusively on the campus of Bloomsburg.

It's ultimately going to depend on the credentials of the faculty member.

- Well, in just a bit, we're going to switch the conversation to the effects on the communities and move things off campus because the universities in these particular communities really are a hub and a vital part of that community but first I want to go back to kind of the governance of the state university system which is really part and as you mentioned, Dr. Hanna, none of these universities can be closed without an act of the legislature.

And we did reach out to a number of lawmakers to get some comments.

And we did get a comment from state senator Scott Martin, let's hear what he had to say.

(air whooshing) - For many different perspectives and working with the development of youth and all my life and not sharing the Senate Education Committee.

Education, learning a skill is so critical to our personal growth, our professional growth and opportunity and moving up the economic ladder.

Wherever you have an institution all across or anywhere in this country, they're very much embedded into the local community in terms of where do the employees live, where do they shop?

Where do their own children go to school?

You know, there's absolutely a connection to economic health, but I truly believe if we're in a place that if we did not start to change in certain areas or look for efficiencies like with the administrations of different institutions or rightsize it, we would be having a much more difficult conversation about, you know, should this facility stay open?

you know, should it not?

What's the impact then on entire community.

So it's not easy.

I know we're in the public comment period and there's still a lot of answers we need as a general assembly.

You know, you're going through all this, what is the end result in terms of savings in terms of what it costs to get an education and what it means to students and the taxpayers.

And so we have a long way to go here in terms of comments but it's important that we're having the conversation and we're taking action in the right direction.

- We are discussing the proposal to integrate six of the state universities into two institutions with overarching administrations.

And yet the campuses will still remain open, there'll be some program changes, there'll be other changes.

This is all apparently for looking to the future, taking into account enrollment projections and the economy and finances.

And we are going to welcome some new guests into the conversation and we'd like to welcome you into the conversation as well.

Please do give us a phone call at +1 800-3269-842 or email keystone@wvia.org or tag us on social with a hashtag #keystonereports.

And we're moving now into the impact on the communities.

And so when we went out, WVIA went out to the various communities; Lock Haven, Mansfield and Bloomsburg and we got some comments about what they see as the impact on the community from the university has the impact and what that might mean, what this proposal might mean.

Can we see that package please?

- There would definitely be an economic impact that the integration would cause the businesses in the area because the first obvious answer is students go to these businesses and support them financially.

And, you know, professors, business owners, community members, they always describe the summer months as the campus being a ghost town.

It could become a permanent ghost town.

If we go to completely online or it just affects student enrollment so much that it gets closed down and it'll just kill the town, almost - This isn't just a loss in terms of revenue to the city from the amount of students here.

When you are gonna cut positions like they're talking about, the houses they live in, that's more tax revenue that we lose, their salaries that's income tax that we lose, they're part of our community and they give input on important issues.

And not for nothing they're highly educated.

So it's a very valuable input that we will lose whenever they're no longer here.

- We've had a great relationship with the university.

We get a lot of professors and a lot of students who aren't looking for a student bar.

They want a quieter, calmer place to be, they come here, so I think it's gonna be tragic for this town.

I think that you won't have the people here spending money in the businesses and you're gonna be losing faculty and staff as well.

I think you gonna see this in all three towns.

- The Mansfield community of course here is what, I don't know what it would be like without the university.

- I think Mansfield University is one of the reasons why Mansfield can exist in the sense of the small businesses here, getting business from the students, you know, when we have like welcome weekends, orientations or family come up.

- The students just bring a freshness to this town.

- A lot of the workers who work at these small businesses also go to Mansfield University.

So not only are they providing a service or, you know, purchasing their product or whatever they're also working for those companies.

- Well, Fred Gaffney is here from the Columbia Montour Chamber of Commerce and mayor Mike Detweiler is joining us from Mansfield to talk about the role that students play in each of the communities they serve.

Well, welcome Fred, welcome mayor.

And can you just comment on what you've heard in from the residents and students that we just heard.

Fred, why dodn't you start?

- Sure.

Thank you.

And for folks that may be watching across the state that aren't aware Bloomsburg is the town seat of Columbia County and I'm with the Columbia Montour Chamber of Commerce.

So certainly for every one of the communities where a state university is located there's no question about the significant positive economic impact that those facilities have on their communities and the activity they generate.

And it was really never more clear than over the past year.

Bloomsburg university happened to be on spring break when the pandemic started and the students never came back from spring break.

And it was that ghost town effect not only for the remainder of last spring semester, but throughout the summer.

Now, fortunately, a lot of them came back in the fall, but not all of them.

So the business community while it was facing the governor's orders to be shut down and operate remotely for a number of weeks they also faced the lack of a significant portion of their customer base from the university students, their parents coming to town for graduation, parents weekend, all those activities.

So keeping each of these campuses open in some form and successful is certainly in the best interest of all the communities.

I think the senator said it very well that a certain amount of rightsizing is appropriate.

It's probably overdue in a number of instances but the ultimate goal is to keep all of these campuses open so that their communities, not just the students, can continue to benefit from their existence.

- Mayor, what do you have to contribute here?

- I don't know exactly how much I'd like to contribute.

I mean, these small towns, our town Mansfield, we do have the students are great impact, not just financially.

It's more important than that.

They bring a lot of flavor to our community but of course it is crucial.

Their spending does not hurt.

Their parents come in, use hotels, you know, I could talk about so many ways that the student body and not just the students, the alumni come back, they visit, oh we have a lot of vivid people.

Real vital, vivid is the wrong word.

A lot of really neat folks from outside of the local area too who bring a lot of flavor and a lot of energy to the area.

Mansfield's a great university.

We have a lot of committed professors with superior intellects, small class sizes here.

I think what is gonna be difficult.

The devil may be in the details.

How will these, all these integrations actually operate?

I've heard a lot of people speak but I haven't heard many specifics yet.

So I do have some concerns but that's, I spoke longer than I maybe should.

- Thank you, mayor.

Well, we have a question, an email question coming in from Denise and this relates to the effect that this proposal may have on the communities and that connection between the university and the communities.

The question is what's the PASHEE response to the UMass analysis of predicted job losses from the integration?

Now that this needs a little bit of background that I could provide.

What Denise is referring to is a study done by PERI which is the Political Economy Research Institute and university of Massachusetts at Amherst.

And this study was done specifically looking at the economic impact and reaction to this proposal.

And just a couple of key elements of that report.

They expect large impacts on job losses, 20% Bloomsburg, 25% percent out in or 20% in the Eastern half and 25% in the Western half.

They point out in their abstract that communities are not these particular rural communities are not well-positioned to realign their economies, loss of additional jobs that are also large, service industries, there's a large report and actually at www.wvia.org on our website, when this is posted we will have a link to that actual report.

So that's what this questioner is referring to this UMass analysis of projected job losses of the integration.

So let's start with Dr. Hanna, are you aware of this report?

- I am.

I am aware and generally of the report, I haven't analyzed or looked deeply into the variables that went into the calculus Larry, but I am aware (mumbles) - Do you think that PASSHE might be taking a better look at that report?

They came out almost like synchronously or at simultaneously, very close.

So it was really hard for one group to look at it as the other one was looking at it.

- Indeed.

- So you think PASSHE will take a look at that during the 60 day window?

- Absolutely.

I think we need to look at every analytic, every piece of evidence we can.

I think it's, it's important to point out that all 14 PASSHE schools are under the direction of each president will be rightsizing itself and balancing its books and basically by July 1 of '22.

So I think there is a little bit of a misunderstanding that the integrations are causing some of the job losses that we're seeing at institutions.

And realistically, if you look at the report that is available to the public, there is an expectation of employee growth after we stabilize and then begin seeing the kind of programs that will be available at all three campuses in the Northeast and in the West where we believe the enrollment will grow and so will the workforce.

So it's really very important to differentiate between making sure that every institution stabilizes itself before integration, so that when we enter the integration that we're entering at a level playing field so that we can have the opportunity to expand our programs, expand opportunities for students and grow our workforce.

- We have some more questions coming in, but quickly I like to go to you Fred on this, because it has definitely do with your position in the Chamber of Commerce.

First of all, have you any knowledge of this report?

- I'm aware of it, but I haven't (mumbles).

- Are you interested in diving into it a little bit more but just from your experience, do you foresee a great, you know, draw down on the economy because of this change in this proposal?

- Well, Bloomsburg university has been working on the rightsizing and no one wants to see anyone lose their jobs.

If there's a silver lining for a lot of people that are in support positions, you know, maintenance and other things.

There's a tremendous job market out there right now.

You know, I've talked to employers on a daily basis that are hungry for people to go to work.

So hopefully there will be lots of opportunities for some of those folks that are displaced.

Obviously you get into the professional level positions in rural areas.

Those opportunities are more limited, but, you know, I've been thinking about this as the Chamber of Commerce from a business perspective and PASSHE is kind of the head of the corporation, if you will.

And each of the campuses are a facility and as market conditions, warrant, you know, business operations have to contract at times and then expand when the time is right.

And again, the universities right now are going through, most of them are going through that contraction with the expectation that as trends reverse as Dr. Hanna indicated that there'll be an opportunity again for for future expansion.

- So we're talking also, we mentioned a lot about distance learning and whether the students will actually be on campus, they could be at Lock Haven and attending classes at Bloomsburg and so forth.

And we have a question in from Elby Fuller, from Bloomsburg He wants to know if there are any projections of the number of students who would not come to campus to live and what will happen to the residence halls, the sports facilities and the food services?

So Dr. Hanna, again this question goes to you - Larry, thanks for the question.

We actually don't envision the on-campus student experience to change in any way.

We expect the campus experience for our students to continue to be vibrant.

Every student facing office at all three institutions in the Northeast will continue to operate so that we are serving our students in the most exemplary way we can.

Where we might see a change is in the number of students who reside on campus.

Our hope is that more students to reside on campus.

And ultimately when during their junior and senior year they're moving out into the community and renting apartments.

And honestly to say that the integration is going to have a deep impact on the communities.

We have to do a better job of retaining our students, all of us.

And the reason I say that Larry is because we typically lose about a quarter to a third of our first year students before their sophomore year.

By improving that retention, we basically will guarantee that the towns that we live in and work in, will have more upper division students who will be those that are going into the pizza shops, into the restaurants and renting apartments in town.

So all of this is really intended to be focused on student success.

How do we provide an exemplary education?

So when students come to any one of our six campuses or 14 campuses but specifically three in the Northeast, that it's an exemplary education that retains them to graduation.

So we actually believe there may be, there should be an economic improvement for those students that will stay and live in the town for their junior and senior year.

- Dr. Martin , what concerns are you hearing from your constituents, the faculty, you probably are getting some comments also from students, maybe even some from some parents.

What are the concerns you're hearing?

- Okay.

If I could back up for just a moment about the community impact and an economic impact in the plan F-50 actually suggested or stated that there to be a community impact study done as part of this plan and that seems to be missing.

You know, I appreciate that it might be difficult to assess but we know that there are going to be impacts.

For example, we still have concerns for our student athletes.

In the plan it talks about there's an intent to have athletic teams on all six campuses that, you know, all that exists now would continue.

The NCAA is not yet ruled on that.

So we don't know that that would be the case, you know, from some of my colleagues I am hearing concerns about the pace at which this process has unfolded.

You know, we began this in October, we're in early May and we're already into a public comment period, our concerns about the fact that there aren't going to be adequate opportunities for public comment.

We unite and know that people can go to the flashy website and add comments, but that's not really in a public form.

As far as we understand, they're only going to be two of those, one on June 9th, one on June 10th, 90 minutes each.

So 180 minutes a lot are for public comment about the most dramatic change to the state system that we've seen that involves six universities that are over 150 years old.

So those are some of the concerns about the pace.

And, and again, I'll go back to our concerns for our student athletes and our coaches.

I mean, we're hearing that coaches are beginning to notice the uncertainty impact their ability to recruit.

If those athletic teams don't exist it's going to definitely negatively impact enrollments because you know, our student athletes are often retained at very high levels, you know that's gonna bring a lot of activity into the communities when there are sporting events if those are lost, that could certainly impact hotel stays, pizza shop visits, all of those.

So those are the kinds of things that we still have questions about and we're hoping would be answered.

So I think at the end of it, the pace at which this is progressing is a little bit confusing to a lot of the people that we're talking to.

- Well we have a caller on the line, Alan, from Stroudsburg.

Alan, are you there?

- [Allan] Yes, I am.

- What is your question?

- [Allan] My question is, is it wise to, this has been a great program and it has shown that there is a lot of confusion and this is happening very quickly.

This is a time when the entire country is undergoing great flux, the pandemic, is it wise to subject our students to even more change at such a difficult time and is it wise to measure Isn't it wise to wait after the pandemic comes down?

Thank you.

- Yeah, so Alan's question is about the timing of all of this and what we've been through so far that has been just really earth shattering for most of us.

So, Dr. Hanna, what about the timing of all of this - Larry, as I said, in my beginning comments, this goes back to 2016, certainly change is very difficult but sometimes change is necessary.

I think the structural issues that the state system is feeling, the fiscal stress that the system is feeling, every year we wait, it's another X million of dollars that we go deeper into the hole, the plan itself and I very much appreciate the caller's question, the plan itself focuses squarely on our students and their success.

We understand our students have gone, the whole world has gone through an incredibly difficult time in the last 18 months but the longer we wait the more peril the circumstances are for the state system.

- I have a question here for Mayor Detwiler, mayor, how important are the Mansfield students to the community?

- Hugely.

I think a lot of times we tend to take them for granted but the student groups do so much for our community.

Like I said, they add a lot of flavor and, you know, we just, we like that.

I think it makes us a much better town to have youthful energy.

And I know a lot of the students personally I've worked with a lot of them in restaurant businesses and through the YMCA and things like that.

So I can't understate how important that is.

There are young people, I think, you know, college education has gotten a lot of bad press too politically.

And I think that's really sad.

University education enriches young people's lives and it impacts them in ways that we can't measure through metrics.

And it also impacts our community in lots of positive ways.

So like, you know, I just can't say enough about how important they are to our community.

- Well, we're quickly actually running out of time in this program.

I wanna talk a little bit more about the technology and the future of education, given the advances in technology, is it possible that the area of education as we knew it, as we in this group knew it growing up, you know, the teacher in the classroom providing instruction to students in that place at that time, is that coming to an end?

Is it really time that we perhaps look to the future and find a better way to use this technology or the difficulties that we found throughout the last year in dealing with this in the pandemic is it has to do more with how we reacted to the technology as learners, as educators?

And do we have to find a way to change the way that we operate?

Dr. Martin, what do you think about that comment?

- You know, and I appreciate that because it's actually something I've thought quite a bit about and talked with a lot of colleagues regarding this.

And I guess I would start with the notion that we've heard a lot and I agree with it that our K through 12 teachers needed to get vaccinated as soon as possible to get back into that classroom where they're gonna be interacting with our younger students in a way that is best for them in their learning.

I don't think that the need for having that face to face interaction ends when you get a high school diploma.

So it goes on, I think there's always a place for technology.

I think there's always a place for online learning but I don't think that should supplant what we're able to gain by being in the same place in a three-dimensional place where you can interact with your students.

And Larry, if I could just continue, one of the things I've really thought a lot about is I actually just finished my 25th year at IUP.

And I only know that because I received the plaque I would be concerned if I am a faculty member at Bloomsburg.

And I have students at Mansfield and students at Lock Haven and I'm a mum too.

So when I'm in a classroom there are times you can sense that there's something going on with a student and it could be academic difficulty but there could be other things that you just get a sense that they're struggling.

And I would know on my campus where I could direct that student so that they could get the services they need.

There were times when I'd actually walk the student to the place, whatever campus resource they needed so they knew where it was.

I would be terribly worried if I sense that one of the students from Lock Haven who was Zooming into my class was having some kind of struggle and I would not know what services are available at Lock Haven, how they would access those and then the same for, you know even at Mansfield so as a faculty member, great.

- Concerns there Dr. Martin, you know, there's so much to talk about.

This is such a complex issue.

We could probably have a five hour program but we're quickly running out of time.

And, and my last question is to Dr. Hanna, this proposal is out there, it was just passed the board of governors last week, we're in a 60 day period of public comment.

Is this proposal something that's etched in stone or through the public comment section, is there room for modification?

- Larry, thank you for the question.

Absolutely.

There's room for modification.

It's not etched in stone.

That's why we are appealing to the public to our colleagues to send us their thoughts.

We review all the comments and it is certainly adaptable.

And it's certainly.

We want to make sure what we ultimately put forth for a vote has had the absolute best sets of eyes on it and the best input from the entire Commonwealth and beyond.

- Thank you.

Thank you Dr. Hannah and that's why we're doing this program.

So I'd like to thank all of our panelists for participating and thank you for joining us.

Now for more information on this topic, please visit www.wvia.org/keystonereports and remember you can re-watch this episode on demand anytime online or on the WVIA app.

for "Keystone Edition" I'm Larry Vojtko.

Thank you so much for watching.

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