>> Happy birthday, Illinois.

It's been 206 years since the state's founding, but some down state residents say it's time to create another one.

7 Illinois counties were added to the growing list of those wanting to explore breaking away and forming their own state signaling they're dispatch dissatisfaction with what's happening in Springfield and Chicago.

Joining us now with more is John Shaw, director of the Public Policy Institute at Southern Illinois University.

John, thank you for joining us.

7 boys 7 more supporting the referendum.

What does this do?

What does this mean now?

>> You know, I think it's an interesting development in meetings.

I think it's an input as it's an important development.

I think it's interesting, but I do not think it is a cataclysmic development.

I frankly, I think it's being somewhat oversold.

I mean, these votes, these referendum, I think, are largely expressions of frustration there kind of can amount to signaling that are concerned about people's economic circumstances.

Some of the cultural battles we've been having.

But I don't think there's a real prospect for any of these counties to actually come together and create a new state.

It would be, just too hard to do legislative lay But I think it's important for policymakers to pay attention to this because I do think there are some currents of of concern and frustration that need to be addressed.

>> And Jon, this isn't unique to Illinois.

What is what is driving these movements?

>> Well, I do think there's a couple things me, first of all, there's just general frustration with people's lives.

I mean, it's been well chronicled.

The election showed it pretty clearly that people do not think that the United States is moving in the right direction, their current, they're concerned about the economy.

They're concerned about cultural issues.

So there's a lot of just overall concern about the circumstances of life.

I think Illinois, there's also the kind of perennial problem.

The downstate Illinois, thanks.

Chicago area is too strong, too powerful to politically connected and there is a sort of false believe that downstate Illinois, is just funneling resources to Springfield.

The dinner funneled to Chicago.

The sense of being aggrieved.

I think the economic analysis shows that downstate Illinois is actually doing OK in terms of Springfield and state services.

But there is perception that that Chicago's quote ripping off downstate Illinois and talk more about that about the impact of Chicago and Cook County on Downstate.

>> Well, I think there's a perception that, you know, Chicago is the political and economic and cultural powerhouse.

You know, the the legislative leaders are based out of Chicago.

The governor.

>> Spends most of his time there much of his time there.

So there is this perception that the power and Illinois government resides in the Chicago area and they they have special kind of power and clout in Springfield that allows them to get what it wants and and disadvantages downstate again, I think the analysis shows the down State, Illinois does pretty well when it comes to the state budget.

But they're that's not the perception down here.

And there is a sense of grievance that I think it's fueling some of These are referenda to, you know, create a 51st state.

>> The last time states seceded it was 18, 60.

That is in West Virginia became its own state.

And to be clear, that was before the Civil War.

Remind us what are the steps for this to actually happen?

>> Well, it would have to be approved.

I resolution or legislation would have to be approved by the Illinois General Assembly.

Then it would have to be approved by the Congress and signed by the president.

And just I mean, under curtain circuit current circumstances.

I mean this, this new Illinois, as it's sometimes called, would be heavily Republican.

So there would be 2 Republican senators.

There's no way the Illinois General Assembly, Democratic super majorities.

He's going to let that happen.

Even if it did, we will go to to the Congress.

The filibuster still in place.

Democratic senators were certainly filibuster So there is no immediate prospect of this happening or even you no longer term.

I mean, I think this I think this is important only in the sense that it shows just shows the discontent and the fear, the frustration that many feel.

And I think leaders in Springfield would do well to just, you know, sit down and have some listening sessions with downstate lawmakers and, you know, kind of political thinkers and thought leaders and try to get a better sense of what the realistic concerns are of people and how they might be addressed.

I think that's exploring.

Yeah, you mentioned, you know the process obviously rightfully You know, we've heard other states talking about this >> Eastern Oregon considering joining the neighboring state.

There is this also sort of reflective of of an urban rural divide in the country.

>> I think so.

I mean, I think this is these these groups are these part of the country that are talking about leaving, you know, are largely large to a world.

I going back into the 1970's Allen oil and Western Illinois.

There was this movement called forgot Tonia.

That began a sort of a prank that took on a kind of a momentum that I don't think even it's a it's a it's originators expected to create a new, I think was actually down a new country.

So I think this is this is a long story about the disconnect, a divide between rural and urban.

It obviously is a profound problem United States.

And as a society, we need to find a way to bridge these 2 worlds because the disconnect is very jarring and it leads to political unrest and a lot reactionary policies.

And I think, you know, you have to see these referenda is effectively a reactionary.

I response to frustrations and concerns about people's Daily lives and downstate Illinois.

>> How should the Democrats, the party in power, how should they respond to counties that are that are taking his votes, which we know or not binding, should the Democrats, the party in power today be hearing this?

>> I think they should you know, if this won't get their attention, you know, the November 5th probably did.

You know, in terms you know, the you know, Democratic share of the vote in November went down significantly.

And I think, you know, part of that is discontent with the Democratic base, but also some some really anger from down state, Illinois.

So I think it was just makes good public policy sense for Democratic lawmakers and Republicans to reach out and to have some of these serious conversations about what the state can do.

You know what the national government can do to make you know, the the rural parts of the state and country operate more effectively.

And the you know, more kind of stable home